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(The following is part of our weeklong Roe v. Wade Blog-a-thon)

10. Laws against abortion do not stop abortion; they simply make it less safe. The number of women who get abortions does not change when it goes from being legal to illegal, or vice versa. The only thing that changes is more women die. Every year, 78,000 women die from unsafe abortions.

9. If people want to stop abortion, they should turn to methods that do work. These include comprehensive sex education and safe, affordable contraceptives. Unfortunately, as illogical as it sounds, the people who are most against abortion are also often most against these preventative measures. If they truly wanted to reduce the number of abortions that occur, they would embrace these methods.

8. The politicians “pro-lifers” so ardently support are only after one thing: self-interest. The majority of them are not “pro-life” because they agree with you; they are because they know you will continue to vote for them—and they know that making women remain pregnant not only takes away their power, but it also keeps them busy, in line, controlled, as well as a baking factory for their failing economy. The more people they have to rule over, the more they have to work and buy. Period.

7. Religious ideology is no foundation for any law. Freedom of religion is guaranteed to any citizen in the United States; so why would the beliefs and values of one religion mandate actual laws for all citizens? It would be unfair, unjust and immoral. We do not have laws against eating fish, nor do we have laws that declare it is legal to sell one’s daughter, rape someone, or keep a person as a slave—all things that are promoted in religious text.

6. Reproductive restrictions do not end with abortion. Many people also argue that contraception itself is wrong—another mainly-religious philosophy—and will deny women the protection they need based on this belief. There are legislative acts that allow actual pharmacists to deny women their birth control because of their beliefs; does this not violate the Hippocratic Oath, especially if thousands of women are on birth control because their very lives depend on it (see #2)? Also, since it is my belief that men should not rape women, if I were a pharmacist, would I have a right to deny a man his Viagra just in case he uses it to rape? You never know.

5. Most people who are against abortion will never even become pregnant. If a law would never, in any circumstance, apply to a man, a man creating that law is preposterous. It is akin to men creating laws that ban women from voting, owning property, or showing skin in public—only much more deadly.

4. Women who are raped or victims of incest should not be forced to carry out a pregnancy. Odds are that 1 in 3 women will be victims of sexual violence in her lifetime. Does this mean that 33% of all women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy from this violation? Considering how many people are killed during childbirth (see #2), should we allow this further risk to endured on top of what has already been done?

Many would argue that these women could endure the pregnancy, spending nearly a year of her life simply re-living the rape and its effects over and over again, to give up a baby at the end of it for adoption. However, we all are aware of the fact that there are millions of unwanted children awaiting adoption as we speak who remain unclaimed; in fact, UNICEF estimates that there are 210 million orphans in the world right now. If they have no one willing to be their parent or guardian, why would another baby have a better chance?

My theory is that people who spend so much time, energy, and money on anti-abortion campaigns should instead spend it on the precious children they say need saving so much—the ones who are alive and parentless. Imagine if all the funds spent on all those billboards and flyers and campaigns were instead either spent adopting or donating to places that are overrun with orphaned children… perhaps some actual credibility would be given to these people who claim to love children so much.

Also, there is the fact of the matter of the more than one million homeless youth in America alone. The number one factor for a child being homeless is physical or sexual abuse at home. Perhaps these “child-lovers” should step in and care for these already-born children as well.

3. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and poverty. There is a reason that the 1 billion poorest people on the planet are female. In sub-Saharan Africa and west Asia, women typically have five to six children, which leaves them powerless to provide for not only their own families, but themselves.

2. Reproductive choice can be the only thing that stands between a woman and DEATH. Women who face deadly consequences of a pregnancy deserve to choose to live. Teen girls, whose bodies are not yet ready for childbirth, are five times more likely to die. Not only do 70,000 girls ages 15-19 die each year from pregnancy and childbirth, but the babies that do survive have a 60% higher chance of dying as well.

During my own pregnancy—which had been unexpected though joyful up to this point—I was horrified to learn that I had preeclampsia only 25 weeks in. While they were able to save both my daughter and me, she was born at 1 pound, three months premature, and was a medical miracle. Most babies at that weight do not survive; and if they do, they suffer severe complications—as do the mothers, including myself. I was then informed that my risk of it happening all over again was extremely high, and that if there were a next time I may not be so lucky. I am fortunate to have access to birth control, but many women—especially young ones—do not. Preeclampsia alone affects 10 to 15% of all women! There are hundreds of other complications that arise besides preeclampsia that can, and will, result in death as well.>

1. Doctors, not governments, should always be the people to make medical recommendations and opinions. Would you allow the government to tell you if you could have a kidney transplant or a blood transfusion? Of course not. The fact that we even consider, let alone allow, governments to regulate a medical procedure is both illogical and foolish.

  • Euphorie

    I have to write a philosophy paper regarding abortion issues and came across your post. I have nothing to say besides that all your reasons are legitimately true. Especially when those who claim to be “pro-life” are men. How can one who can never experience such situations place such a strong influence on the topic? Of course; I consider my-self “pro-life” as well, but life isn’t a REAL life without given the choice and liberty to make such life-changing decisions right?

    Either way, thanks for the article! :)

    • St Kitts

      You should know that not all pro-lifers are men. Far from it- I serve on a Right to Life board where the President, the two paid employees, and over half the board are women. And if someone sees human beings being killed, isn’t it their duty to stand up and say something as a member of the human race, regardless of their gender?

      • Tay

        What about the men who want to keep their baby and the mother chooses abortion? A man has no say in it. A man deserves a voice. It takes two to make the baby therefore they should have a choice. Unless of course the mother’s life is at risk.

        • keepyourrosariesoffmyovaries

          A man does not have to carry the child for 9 months and risk DEATH.

          • tay

            I said UNLESS there are health risks for the mother of the child. If you don’t want to carry a child for nine monthes then you shouldn’t have unprotected sex.

          • Dido

            If the man acknowledges that it is his child and is willing to help the mother care for the child then yes he should absolutely have a say. It would not be fair to him.

          • zelch

            So because of this men can’t have an opinion? that is sexism, straight up. how can your logic be that because a woman carries the child she can decide if it lives or dies? How is that moral? I’m sorry but anyone to believe that is sick. Have you’re own views but don’t tell me i cant have mine because i’m a male.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            And to add to that, it’s a double-standard. And it’s not feminist at all, it’s male-chauvinist. Feminism stands for equal rights…and frankly, its a fulfilled movement. In the eyes of the law, and God, men and women are equal. That does NOT mean that women are MORE equal than men. It takes TWO to tango.

    • Dave

      Are you aware that the first president of the National Right to Life Committee was in fact a woman? Her name was Dr. Mildred Fay Jefferson, and she was the first African-American woman to graduate from Harvard Medical School.

      At any rate the argument that “most pro-lifers will never experience pregnancy” would be moot even if it were true. Even though I will never experience pregnancy, I ALREADY HAVE experienced fetushood!

      The issue isn’t women’s rights. Women’s rights are already recognized. Women have the right to vote, run for office, etc, and that’s a very good thing. The problem is that, as the laws currently stand, the rights of human beings during the first nine months of their lives are NOT recognized. So, as things stand, the woman’s right to decide what happens to her own body is the only consideration, so the conclusion seems to be a no-brainier. But if both are recognized as what they are–living human beings, equal in value if not in level of development–then the right to life of the unborn is seen to be in conflict with the woman’s right to decide what happens to her own body. Clearly a compromise of some sort is in order. And since the right to life of the unborn–the most fundamental of all rights–is at stake, the fetus shouldn’t be the one making concessions.

      • Alucard291

        Just no right to have control over their own body. I agree very fair. But they can vote in your pointless elections. And fail to get into any office.

        • Kara

          Except that it is not just the woman’s body.

        • Brett

          No biologist would say that a fetus is part of a woman’s body. So why would you say that it is? What are your qualifications to make that claim?

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            What are YOUR qualifications, Mr. Biologist? Cite your sources, don’t just make rash claims.

        • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

          Now that would be the people’s fault, wouldn’t it? And they DO have control over their own body…they have the right to CHOOSE whether or not TO HAVE SEX, WHICH IS MEANT TO RESULT IN PREGNANCY IN EVERY SPECIES OF ORGANISM ON THIS EARTH.

    • CJOHNSON

      Should only black people be allowed an opinion on racism? Should only women people be allowed to have an opinion on women being allowed to vote?

      • Nicole

        for the racism, no, because you generalized racism, it could be against any raceso obviously it can’t just be blacks. But for women’s right to vote, hell yes. it’s WOMEN’s right to vote….so yes it should be a WOMAN’s opinion.

        • St Kitts

          lol I suggest you go look at the woman’s suffrage movement and then come back and tell me how it would have worked out for women if they decided that men were not allowed to have an opinion on votes for women.

          • keepyourrosariesoffmyovaries

            WOMEN WOULD HAVE NEVER LOST THE RIGHT TO VOTE IF MEN HADN’T TAKEN AWAY OUR RIGHTS IN THE FIRST PLACE. stupid stupid stupid

          • St Kitts

            Women never lost the right to vote because they never had it in the first place. I suggest you take a deep breath, calm down, quit resorting to ad hominem arguments, and go look up the history of the suffragette movement. Oh, and I’m not Catholic and have no interest in your ovaries. Classy name though.

    • Brett

      Everyone who believes in liberty believes in the freedom of self-determination. But the key is the right to choose what? You have to put the object at the end of the verb (e.g. I choose “this” or “that”) before we can evaluate whether or not it is ethical. Freedom does not mean the right to do what I want. For example, I don’t think anyone thinks I should have the freedom to kill my neighbor because he bothers me. That would be license, not freedom. On the topic of pro-life vs. pro-choice many folks that are pro-choice forget the distinction. The law at this time gives a woman license to kill a human being.

  • St Kitts

    I notice that you failed to address the key issue- whether a fetus is a human being or not. That’s the crux of the matter. If it is, none of your arguments are valid because that child’s right to life outweighs any rights the mother has (excepting her own right to life).

    • Stupid fucking faggot

      A fetus is not born, therefore not a U.S citizen, and not entitled to any rights at all. It is property, thus why it is called a fetus. Its like an organ. Property.

    • Ella

      Do you personally believe that the fetus is a human being? I do, and I completely agree with your thinking. These points do not address the real issue. It’s cautiously skirting around it.

      • St Kitts

        I do. And here is the simple reason why: a fetus is obviously the same species as any person after birth, therefore a fetus is a member of the human race. As a member of the human race, it ought to have the exact same rights as any other member of the human race- first and foremost, the right to life.

        • Freethinking

          Regarding early term abortion, at that point it is nothing more than a mass of cells. Saying that destroying it is murder because it has the potential to be a child is basically saying that using a condom is also murder.

          • Dave

            1. That “mass of cells” is a unique human individual, the like of which has never been seen before, nor will ever be seen again.
            2. That “mass of cells” has a heartbeat at 21 days post conception, and detectible brain waves at 40 days post conception. By 56 days post conception, 90% of the structures the organism will have as an adult are already present. Calling the unborn a “mass of cells” is grossly misleading at best. At worst, it is downright diabolical.

            3. It doesn’t have the potential to be a child, it IS a child at an extremely early age of development.
            4. Unlike semen, that “mass of cells” is a distinct organism directing its own course of development. Oocytes and spermatoza are mere parts of organisms, albeit parts dedicated to the production of new organisms.

          • Gissette

            Dave, I just want to quote you for a second, “That mass of cells” is a unique human individual, the like of which has never been seen before, nor will ever be seen again.”

            It is interesting that you say that because, yes while it’s true that cells are living things, it still doesn’t take away from the fact that they are NOTHING but cells. To say that those cells are a “unique human individual” is biologically wrong. Looking at your other arguments, it’s obvious that you have NO real knowledge of prenatal development at all. You are speaking about those tiny mass of cells as if they are already a child. That is NOT true. Those mass of cells are only a bases for what “can” be created. Until then, they have a LONG way to go. If those “mass of cells” were indeed a real human individual, then when a woman miscarried, those so-called human individuals would be saved and would be humans. But because cells die early (because they are not human and do not have the same biological capabilities that we have) they can’t survive!

          • YOLO IN UR PENIS

            Go to hell gissete. u have a small penis

          • Random

            Hello, I am a middle schooler doing a persuasive essay on abortion. I do not believe that this is appropriate language- thank you! Oh, by the way *your

          • Random #2

            Hello, I am also a high schooler doing a persuasive essay on abortion. I feel that Yolo In Ur Penis’ opinion is actually extremely valid, and that you should certainly respect their views. Who are you to decide that someone’s language is inappropriate? Perhaps you should consider your own views on this matter -thank you! Oh, by the way *correcting spelling mistakes on the internet makes you look like an arrogant prick.

          • not random

            oh PLEASE shut up. you’re obviously the arrogant prick here, bitch.

          • Jordan

            Okay, so if I’m reading this right, it’s not a living person until it breathes of it’s own accord? How do you determine that a mass of cells with a heart beat and brain waves are part of the parent organization?

          • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

            It depends on the placenta for all nourishment. It can not survive separately.

          • shelos

            And my new born baby depends on my feeding and nourishing it in order to survive.. So if I “choose” to no longer care for her it’s all good, since she cannot survive on her own? Sweet! I was getting really stressed about those mid-night wake ups to keep her alive..

          • gingerland62

            Do you change its diapers? Was it pooping in your womb? How about crying? was it doing that in your womb?

          • Abortion is love

            The difference between your newborn and your former embryo/fetus is that another person can take care of your baby. Another person could not have taken care of your embryo or fetus. It was totally dependent upon YOU–your body–and yours alone.

          • pro-life

            Actually, there have been cases in which a human fetus has survived outside the womb. They are very rare, however.

          • brittney

            and you depend on money to survive… what happens if we cut you off… what happens if we take away everything you are and have, and give you nothing? we take away the entire core of your being… you can not survive on nothing what if your mother left you with nothing, no food when you were helpless… the only thing you have to that argument is words

          • OB

            Heartbeat doesn’t make you “human” or “unique”, nor does “brain waves”. Heart, as such, can beat on its own (outside the human body) for quite a while but I don’t see you talking about heart rights.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …I think you’ve got it backwards, Gisette. What qualifies as unique, human, and individual?

            Well…unique means, basically, not the same. That “fetus” (unborn infant), has DNA which is completely unique of both its father and mother, which also, in the fact that this infant can be autonomous outside the mother’s care relatively soon, means it is an individual. And to answer any argument about this being the “woman’s” body…tell me, is the woman the one being eviscerated and scooped out? No, it’s the infant.

            And as for human…tell me, Gisette, what DNA does this fetus have? Let’s be frank. It’s not dog DNA, or pig DNA, or reptile DNA, or spider DNA. It’s HUMAN DNA, because a human can only produce another human being.

            On a sidenote…I’m sure that you would not have liked to have been aborted yourself, so why deny the right to life to anyone that could have it?

          • Come on

            each of our cells have unique DNA to us. Should they be saved as well? Is monthly menstruation murder? Is premature ejaculation genocide? Let’s be real, a mass of cells is not human.

          • mel

            An embryo would in most cases become very soon a human child. menstruation happens naturally and semen does not by itself grow into a child. An embryo from conception has unique DNA and will become a person with unique characteristics. Have you seen a video of an abortion? There are plenty of them online. do you advocate murdering babies?. Then you are the sickest person on earth

          • Abortion is love

            Nor do an egg or sperm “by itself grow into a child.”
            Don’t you just love how anti-women activists conveniently leave the pregnant woman out of the picture altogether?
            All they care about is clumps of cells, not people. And that’s because their real concern is about men returning women to slavery: once again owning and having total control over women.

          • a person

            The woman loses her right to choose whether or not to have the baby at birth. And also calling pro-life activists “anti – woman activists” is highly inaccurate. I don’t care about women who get rid of their unborn children just because it is a “burden.”

          • its their body.

            if they can DIE from having that child then THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT to choose whether to carry it or not. that child will be motherless. and they are THOUSANDS of children up for adoption who have no parents ALREADY we dont need more parentless children just because people are trying to tell other ppl how to live their lives. most people preaching pro life probably have never been in a situation where they were raped, couldnt take care of it properly, or are alone or have a disease. it is a WOMANS body. not a mans. not anyone elses. men HAVE NO IDEA what its like they cant go through it so they should have NO SAY.

          • Messi

            Is taking a shower and losing skin cells murder? ;)

          • Anna Marie Jacobs

            Wait.. do your skin cells grow into a separate human being? I would definitely tell a doctor about that.

          • Brooke

            are you being serious?!?! that’s a human being that God formed….

          • A human

            Welp, we are all one big mass of cells aren’t we? I guess nobody’s human then.

          • Anna Marie Jacobs

            But the eggs and the sperm are not anything together.

          • Jessica Stevie

            i agree with you and anyone else who is pro choice and i fell you will enjoy this

          • Price

            Well we share 98% DNA with chimpanzees, hell we share 15% with mustard grass. Does that make them human beings? So maybe a little research in genome projects will help. An embryo is not a fetus! Is an egg a chicken? Is a stem cell a person? It can be 100% human DNA? And by all of your arguments the morning after pill is murder as well?

          • You’re not getting it.

            Uh, no. Skin cells, stem cells, sperm cells are all human cells. None have the potential to become a grown person though. The cells of prenatal children are just that- unique cells of a unique person who will become a unique adult (if we don’t murder it first). It’s not about being all human DNA. It’s about being a UNIQUE human being.

          • Abortion is love

            And what is so special to you about the unique part? Just because a clump of cells has a different set of chromosomes doesn’t mean it should be privileged above all else, i.e. the person who’s body it resides in, for starters.

          • brittney

            ok so just because you work and I work lets say you make more money than I do… what makes you so special… I think that in the case of your logic, we should all get one house with the exact same number of bedrooms and bathrooms, and we all have the same number of kids and wear the same clothes and eat the same food and your husband or wife is picked out for you because someone else gets to choose how your life works you don’t get a choice and neither do I because that is life and no one should be privileged in any way we do not all equally deserve the same shot at life in fact we should all go to school for exactly the same things or no one should go to school and we should leave that up to someone who does not even know anything about us yet but they ask the question what makes him or her so unique

          • random guy

            Sounds alot like a socialist

          • OB

            Skin cell, stem cell, sperm cell, any cell in the human body basically – all have the potential to become a grown person. It’s called cloning. Do your research, darling.

          • Abortion is love

            I wouldn’t have minded AT ALL if my mother had chosen to abort me. I wouldn’t have known the difference, and it was her human right. Her life, as a person who had lived more than 40 years, mattered more than the pre-me clump of cells.

          • Silverstarryeyed

            I love how you say that you have opinions, I have mine. Most abortions are merely for convience, if you looked at statistics you would know that. I am actually pro life. I don’t mean to insult you (too much) when I say this. But if you had paid attention in biology class at ALL you would be able to get your facts straight. And yes the morning after pill IS murder. I think that women have a choice, but that choice should have been made BEFORE she actually got pregnant. I have also noticed that everyone that is pro choice has already been born, just saying. I also think that ALL life is valuable, whether it is unwanted, damaged, etc.s

          • Abortion is murder

            Thank you! I agree 100%!

          • lk

            do you know how many rapes occur on a daily basis? Not everyone willingly gets pregnant. You are terribly sick to make a woman have the child of her rapist. Not to mention the emotional toll it puts on the child growing up.

          • Abortion is murder

            Your life matters more than hers, because she had lived forty years. You wouldn’t have lived any if you were murdered before you were born. Forty years is plenty. Zero years? Not enough. Don’t devalue your life like that. And, in case your wondering, no I am not attacking your mother or you personally.

          • Ashleigh C

            Gissette, with all due respect, i totally agree with hiram and dave. Think about it this way. When someone dies, their heart obviously stops beating. their body tissue does not maintain a heart beat obviously. It sounds silly, but that is pretty much what you are saying. To say that the fetus is not a human being, you are saying that some random mass of cells maintains a heartbeat, has a brain, sucks its thumb, opens and shuts its mouth, kicks mommy, etc. if it wasnt a human being, why would it need a placenta?

          • OB

            Why are you talking about thumb sucking, tummy kicking and such? Abortion, as a rule, is carried out way before these are present. And “has a brain” argument? Fetus doesn’t have a brain, its brain has only started to develop and it takes a very long time for it to be properly functioning. “If it wasn’t a human being, why would it need a placenta?” Are you insane? There cases when placenta forms despite that there’s no fetus present. How’s placenta a sign of human-ness?

          • B

            how can every cell that has human genetic DNA not be human DNA how is that not a sign of being human… I will make it simple… human DNA equals human being

          • Kat

            If someone was holding a newborn baby in one hand and a Petri dish containing a fertilized egg in the other and dropped both, which one would you try to catch if you only had time to catch one?

            Once you have made your decision you will realize that a child and a fetus are two different things.

            You should read this as well

            http://theroguefeminist.tumblr.com/post/20764240610/tehblackbird-thatonegirlsierra

          • B

            who is going to hold a newborn baby and a fertilized egg at the same time… ?that is not a good argument at all… only doctors handle the fertilized eggs and for one reason… they are helping to impregnate a woman and giving her the baby that she wants

          • Brooke

            Amen

          • CJOHNSON

            Everything living is just a “mass of cells”.

          • Fuck bitches get money

            Guess what. UR HOMO

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

            LICK IT BITCH!!!!!!

          • Brendan Flood

            If you like yourself SOOOO much, then why don’y you just GO FUCK YOURSELF, and GET THE FUCK OFF!!!

          • Fuck bitches get money

            U mad bro?

          • Random

            OH MY GOD! CAN ALL OF YOU DUMB HIPSTERS PLEASE GET OFF YOUR BUTTS AND GET A FREAKING JOB?? Why do you think that this economy is in the toilet? PLEASE go and educate yourselves. Please stop fighting on the internet like whiny little people. Also, please learn how to spell, use correct punctuation, and use grammar correctly. We can all agree to disagree.

          • GrammarNazi

            “use correct punctuation, and use grammar”

            *That comma before the ‘and’ is irrelevant. Man, PLEASE go and educate yourself!

          • GrammarNazi’s Grammar Nazi

            Nice try, GrammarNazi, but that quote was only a part of his list. Including “please learn how to spell,” as he did, made the sentence grammatically correct. However, his use of two question marks successively was incorrect.

          • YOLO IN UR PENIS

            Hey brendan, ur faggot so fuck u! and why do u fuck ur dog its fucking gross. i mean seriously! u perve!

          • YOLO IN UR PENIS

            Brendan flood is a FAG!!!

          • littlemama

            Ignorant speach just shows how much you really can back an argument for your views.

          • Random

            Wow, you sir, are very cool! Using swear words is just SO hardcore! Please, can we keep these arguments sane?

          • littlemama

            Hey not everyone wants to read ignorant language-if this is supposed to be intelligent arguing keep the cursing out of it and foul language. THis is not a site for drunks just home from the bar.

          • Rebecca M.

            Incorrect. This “mass of cells” is not just “the potential” of a child, it IS a child. Each of a man’s sperm is not a human baby. How do you even compare a man’s sperm and a woman’s fertilized egg?

          • Jrobi507

            “Most fertilized eggs are spontaneously
            miscarried. Development into a baby is by no means guaranteed. Neither a sperm
            and egg separately, nor a fertilized egg, is more than a potential baby
            or a potential adult. So if a sperm and egg are as human as the
            fertilized egg produced by their union, and if it is murder to destroy a
            fertilized egg–despite the fact that it’s only potentially a baby–why
            isn’t it murder to destroy a sperm or an egg?” – by Carl
            Sagan and Ann Druyan

          • EraEye

            Because a sperm and an egg are two different cells which individually can’t become a child while a fertilized egg is already a union of a sperm and egg cell and by then certain biological changes start to happen and it can become a child. It is the first step on it’s way to become a human person. It already has a DNA unique to its parents.

          • Brendan Flood

            It got it’s DNA from its parents. Half from mom, half from dad. Until it is ready to be born, then it is not a baby, it is a fetus, a clump of cells.

          • shelos

            You people can’t really believe this? Scientifically speaking, YOU are a clump of cells! We all are!!!

          • Fuck bitches get money

            yes lets talk about sex. i fucked my sister last night. oh and i saw u fucking ur dog. it was nasty!

          • Random

            Just leave. Good Lord. Leave *you *your

          • YOLO IN UR PENIS

            Era eye needs a dildo

          • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

            Every cell of your body has your DNA. But every cell is not a person. Neither is a zygote or embryo.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            Ummm…that’s just the thing. A zygote and an embryo have their OWN DNA.

          • anthro_apologist

            Do humans have tails and gills?

          • OB

            They do, well, since you’re calling embryos human, and embryos do have gills and tails in the beginning. Ever heard of evolution?

          • gingerland62

            Animals have DNA, so why do we eat them?

          • Dan

            A zygote and embryo are part of the human life cycle…no differently than a baby, teenager, adult, and elder. The zygote is still living and should not be killed.

          • Whatever

            I completely agree with you. We also should not use anti-bacterial products. Bacteria are living and should not be killed. Don’t refuse the innocent bacteria their right to life.

          • Ash

            Bacteria is not a human being.

          • gingerland62

            You must not have raised a teenager to compare that to a minuscule bit of tissue sitting in MY uterus waiting to decide to stick or not. I take the opinion of men very lightly on this subject. They will never understand what it is to be a woman or be pregnant. Let’s start legislating testicles and see if you like it.

          • Fuck bitches get money

            Mass of cells up ur ass!!!
            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

          • YOLO IN UR PENIS

            Rebecca is a bitch!

          • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

            I disagree. It is NOT a child.

          • Harold

            You obviously are one stupid dumbass. It is idiots just like you that is the problem. It’s just too bad someone didn’t suck you mass of cells out of your mother’s pussy and sent that down her leg along with the rest of your father’s load.

          • Brendan Flood

            Harold, Shut up.

            Also, the fetus is a mass of cells, and it is alive, but why is it your choice as to whether or not someone has to have a baby?

            Yes, all the replies are going to say “It’s their fault for having sex in the first place.” And I say, yeah, true. But people make mistakes.

            Another thing is the word potential. It seems to me that people who are pro-life use this a whole lot. I have the “potential” to become the richest person in the world, but that doesn’t mean I will. They have the potential to become a human being also means that it isn’t already a human being, so you’re contradicting yourself.

            And one last thing: I think it’s hilarious how every single comment on this string is a reply to St Kitts’ comment.

          • St Kitts

            You are a mass of cells, and you are alive, but why would that mean you have a right to life? I’ll tell you why. Its because human beings have a a right to live under the law, and an unborn child is just as much a human as a born child. You have a right to life, and so do they.
            So when you say “why is it your choice as to whether or not someone has to have a baby?” my answer would be that it is the moral imperative of any human being with a shred of decency to speak up for an individual which is manifestly human yet has no right to live under the law.

          • Brendan Flood

            Well said, and I believe that that is completely correct, except for the fact that there are 2 people involved in the abortion. The mother AND the unborn fetus. The mother’s life is always going to come before the fetus, everyone agrees on that (only if she will die if the baby would be born).

            But the mother is the one who has to spend 9 months incubating the baby. If she wants to have the baby, she wouldn’t mind at all. But if she doesn’t want to have it, she would not want to waste those nine months on a baby she will probably just give up for adoption.

            Now, my mom was adopted because her mom wasn’t able to care for her because she was too young, so I’m not saying that pro-choice is completely wrong and evil, but I think that mothers should get a choice on whether or not they want to devote 9 months of their lives on a baby that they won’t keep.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …did that baby ask to be born to a selfish woman that had sex without any intention of following through with the very PURPOSE of that act?

          • lana harris

            Please, please tell me that you have only had sex to procreate. Or that you’ve never had sex. You’re a disgusting womanizer, that’s the most primitive and closed minded response I’ve read.

          • Ragefeeder

            Ah, insults. The lifeblood of politics.

          • The Rabbit

            Where, oh where did contraception go?

          • lana harris

            How dare you blame a woman for an act that obviously involves two people, and an outcome that is likely to be ignored by one party. And who is so old fashioned to honestly think that people are going to restrain from sex because its strictly fr procreation… Someone that is willfully ignorant for the sake of their argument.

          • gingerland62

            If it din’t ask to be born why should we force it to be born?

          • http://www.facebook.com/kate.kantcheva Kate Kantcheva

            If you are such an advocate for the mass of cells to live and become a baby…maybe you should go adopt all the kids that are given up for adoption…that might help the 250 million kids that have no parents becuase they were unwanted, abandoned, or just given up at birth. IT IS THREE times more cruel to abandon a baby and leave to live a misery of a life as an orphan than to abandon a mass of cells that is not human ….

          • St Kitts

            Well I’m 19 so I don’t think I’d be the best father at this point. however, my little brother is 10 years old and my parents fostered him since age 0 and adopted him at age 3.. and I am so thankful to his biological mother for not aborting him. ibtotally agree with you… anyone who opposes abortion should be prepared to adopt a child

          • hiloiphilbob

            how do you know, did you interview the dead,unborn children?d

          • lana harris

            Thank you, Kate, perfectly stated.

            I’m stupidly admitting to such a crowd that I recently suffered through an abortion. I had a birth control failure, to which I promptly took plan b but I still got pregnant. It was 4 weeks, barely an embryo, the doctor said she could only see a yolk sac on the sonogram.

            I am a college graduate, I work two jobs and I still only have 23$ to my name. I sometimes have to skip whole days of eating because I can’t afford it. If I went through the pregnancy, the fetus would have serious risks. Not to mention that I wouldn’t have the heart to just put it in an orphanage, so I’d try to raise it on a poor mans wage, thus perpetuating the cycle.

            I very consciously said “suffered” because I’m in serious mental instability because of my decision, but to most people I’m a murderer. But I proudly stand by my decision. I won’t ever bring another child in this world, there are already too many abandoned.

          • gingerland62

            To most people you exercised your rights as an American citizen. Most people in America support Roe v.Wade, though the anti choice would like you to believe otherwise. Your body, your LIFE, your choice.Slavery was made illegal many years ago, and we are not slaves to the state!

          • JMJ

            You do realize that abortion can happen at any point during a pregnancy, correct? One week, 3months or 9 months. So your saying it is okay to kill a child depending on how old they are instead of giving them their own rights to live and you taking it upon yourself to decide if the child should live or not?

          • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

            You think it is a human being. But that is just your opinion. Most likely you couldn’t visually pick out a human embryo from a chicken or pig embryo. It takes more than DNA to be a person.

          • Nikki

            “More than DNA,” you say? What exactly “more” are you talking about? What “more” do you have that an unborn child does not?

          • http://twitter.com/harrygirlprobs_ rachel

            People have thoughts, feelings, experiences, and brainwaves. The question is not when does life begin, but when does that life become a human life. There is a lot more to humanity than just DNA and the potential to form into a human. Embryos can not feel pain, and don’t have any brain waves until the 27th week of pregnancy. They could not live independently from the mother, which links the mother and the embryo permanently and makes it her choice whether or not she wants to devote nine months or the rest of her life to a child she might not be able to physically, emotionally, or financially support. Adoption can’t always be the answer, either, due to mass amounts of children who are in orphanages and foster homes that haven’t been adopted. Also, a lot of women couldn’t emotionally deal with giving up a baby that formed inside of her and was the main part of her life for nine months. Just another point, I’m sure you pro-life people wouldn’t all be so against hunting. What makes killing a minuscule bundle of cells so much worse than shooting an animal that can feel pain and have thoughts and experiences? Just because of a difference in genetic make up?
            Also, I’d just like to say that everyone’s entitled to their opinions but if you’re a male you couldn’t ever understand and/or have a relevant opinion. Abortion affects the mother’s life, not yours in the slightest. The embryo really doesn’t have a life to be affected, in terms of the neurological view.

          • gingerland62

            It takes being born to be a “person”

          • The Rabbit

            I think you’re missing somthing.

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          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …it’s not potential to become a human being. It IS a human being, simply by merit of its DNA. And the remedy for a mistake is never to kill someone else.

          • Liberalftw

            Does that make a flake of dandruff from my head a human being? It’s got the DNA. And why do you have any right to be involved in a woman’s choice? Babies don’t even know they exist until 3 months after birth. My personal opinion is that personhood and rights should be granted at the moment of birth, not before or after. It also comes to me that you were the same asshole that said in reply to a rape story: “Well the teen shouldn’t have spread her legs.” Let me ask you, if I held you at gunpoint, itching to pull the trigger and end your pitiful life if you didn’t submit to my brutal demands, would you spread your legs?

          • I want to see that dandruff grow into a human before I accept that fallacy. Also, are you saying that the human to be born must have knowledge to have rights? What’s the difference between a baby and a fertilized egg, lack of development?

          • gingerland62

            so you believe…That is what is great about America–I do not have to hold the same ideas as you. I say I have more rights than a clump of DNA I could put on the tip of a pin, What you are doing is reducing humanity to biological matter, a human is more than that.

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          • St Kitts

            Could you point out to me the magical moment of transformation between human and non-human?

          • Brendan Flood

            when the baby can be born without life support

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          • Random

            What is wrong with you obtuse hipsters? *night

          • SirArthur

            *Knight.

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          • shelos

            So I got in a car accident a few years ago and had to be on a ventilator during my emergency surgery.. So at that time was I not human?

          • gingerland62

            Seriously, had you been born yet? What a ridiculous question.

          • Abortion is love

            When it emerges from the womb alive.

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          • The Godless Liberal

            I agree, a foetus is no more human than a sperm. The majority of pro-life arguments can also be used for sex cells.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …not really. Those sex cells have your own DNA. The baby has its own unique DNA. Obviously you don’t know much about how reproduction works.

          • OB

            That’s with you and the unique DNA argument? And sex cells are actually called gametes and they don’t technically have the same DNA as the rest of the body and the DNA in each of them is different. So… Your point was?

          • Seriously

            His point was that human life is anything with a COMPLETE set of human DNA, not half of one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …that’s just the thing. It’s not got the POTENTIAL to become a child…it IS one. And a mass of cells is a tumor. A mass of cells that possesses the blueprint of a human being is HUMAN. Know your science.

          • psnaj15

            im not a scientist on this subject or anything, but something that has “potential to be a child” is not a child. its just sperm. when the sperm fertilizes the females egg, then we got something

          • ereine

            False. Just because it doesn’t look like a fetus doesn’t mean it’s not human. Plus, “every embryologist in the world knows that the life of the new individual human being beings at fertilization. It is not belief. It is scientific fact.” – Ward, Kischer, Ph.D. Human Embryologist, Univ. of Arizona

          • Anna Marie Jacobs

            Doesn’t it have DNA? If it is just destroying a clump of cells, would getting rid of a wart be also considered an abortion?? The last part is from a blog I read.. but.. yeah.

          • Seriously

            Tell me the next time your wart grows into a human being.

          • Lady Life

            Freethinking: That is not a valid argument- using a condom would not be considered murder because conception has not occurred, therefore it is not a child.

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        • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

          A zygote or embryo is not a fetus.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            Okay then, what’s the difference, since you seem to be the authority on definitions, here? That’s the same as saying that an adolescent and a toddler aren’t human. Zygote, embryo, fetus, baby, toddler, teen…they’re not definitions that define whether or not we’re human. They’re stages of human development.

          • Amira

            Actually, the definition of zygote is LITERALLY a mass of cells. The zygote is formed when the egg is still travelling in the oviduct, it hasn’t even implanted into the uterus yet. Have you never taken Biology?

        • Cassandra

          I sure hope you are a vegetarian.

        • Emily

          but how can an unborn person exercise their rights? that’s why it is debated that personhood is reached at birth and not before. once you are born, then and only then can someone advocate for you since you obviously can’t speak for your self but while you are still in the womb and NOT an individual since you are relying on a host (the mother) to feed you and and everything else, obviously you would have no say on whether you have the right to anything. I feel that a woman that becomes pregnant can terminate it if she so chooses. she has the free will to make on she should have the free will to discontinue the pregnancy at will if she wants to or needs to in a safe legal manner. furthermore people that disagree with that act of free will should mind their business and if they don’t want to ever have an abortion then don’t but if you do then do its no one else’s business what one person does. once the kid is born THAT is a different story because now they are a living breathing individual that has rights that is no longer dependent on their mother for life, they just need to be raised up and fed etc etc. Just my oppinion

          • St Kitts

            Okay you said a lot of stuff there so I will try to tackle it all.
            First of all, an unborn person obviously cannot exercise their own rights. That does not mean they do not have rights.
            Secondly, the fact that a child in the womb is dependent on their mother for survival does not mean that said child is not an individual. Thats like saying a person hooked up to life support or even a feeding tube is not a person because they are dependent on life support. Furthermore, even when that child is born, it will be at least several years before that child is capable of feeding itself and taking care of itself in anyway, yet that child is still a unique human being.
            Thirdly, a lot of your argument seems to rest on the fact that the child can not speak for itself or stand up for itself. Rather than that being a reason to kill the child in the womb, I would think that should make most people jump up in defense of an innocent child whose life is in danger.
            Fourthly, you said that people who oppose abortion should not get one if thats how they feel, but otherwise shutup and mind their own. However, if someone feels that an unborn child is still a person, than isn’t it that person’s duty to stand up and speak for the children who cannot speak for themselves?

        • Messi

          So….if a fetus “is a person,” then why don’t we give it benefits, a social security number, and have a funeral when it dies? Oh, because it’s not a human. Animals have more awareness and ability than a fetus, so does that mean we should ban the killing of any and all animals and simply use meat analogues? If you’re going to argue that people kill animals in order to have food, would abortion be justified if the mother agreed to eat the fetus? No, that’s sick, and twisted. As is the idea that the life of a fetus, which has no idea what it is or its purpose is, has a higher right to life than the woman who has to carry it around for 9 months. All of these conservatives may as well change their party to the anti-women’s movement. Besides, if the mother TRULY doesn’t want the child, why should they have to birth it to a shitty life anyway? Crime sparks from one being ignored, along with other behavioral problems.

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      • Whatever

        Even if a fetus is a human being, why do you think you should be able to force someone to carry out a pregnancy?

      • Benny

        If I had a fetus in one hand (we’ll just assume it’s surviving there) and a baby in the other, and I told you I had to drop one of the out the window right now, which would you pick?

        If a fetus is a life and abortion is murder, should mothers who miscarry be tried for murder?

      • benbobjam

        im just glad science doesn’t give a flying fack about your personal beliefs… LOL

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679988716 Lisa Shields

      Actually, the only question is who should live or die? Women are not disposable. In the final analysis, if you accept that a fetus has a “right to life”, you are saying that women do NOT. I disagree.

      • CJOHNSON

        They are not saying that women do not have a right to live. Do you think that a mother should be allowed to kill her three-month-old baby to save her life?

        Are children disposable? If you think so, that is a problem.

        • Nicole

          your question is impossible to answer. Because if the mother does not save her own life, she’ll die….and along with her the fetus. the fetus is not independent of the mother – it’s health is directly dependent on the mother’s health. so it’s kind of a catch-22. if the fetus lives, the mother dies….and then the fetus will then die on it’s own. if the mother lives, the fetus dies.
          is it better to lose two lives, or one?

          • St Kitts

            Well it seems as if we agree. All that you are arguing for is the right to abortion in the incredibly tiny proportion of cases where an abortion will save the life of the mother. I totally agree that abortion should be allowed in the case of the life of the mother. In the other 99% of cases, however, abortion should not be allowed.

          • Liz

            Ah… actually, I don’t agree. Please, St Kitts, don’t be seduced by this argument.
            For example, in many of these “life of the mother” cases, it turned out to be an ectopic pregnancy, did it not? These pregnant women were told they needed to proceed with an abortion, or else die, and there HAVE been examples in medical history where this has been proven to be inaccurate.

          • Gretchen

            Please stop using your religious beliefs as the foundation for a medical degree. There are a myriad of different examples in “medical history” where the fetus endangers the life of the mother, whether from cancer, HIV, or any other number of valid medical reasons. When you support bills that stipulate no abortion for any reason are you able to foresee the medical of every mother cause if “medical history” shows us anything, it is that pregnancy has the potential to go wrong all the time. Secondly, do you know what an ectopic pregnancy is, because it is when the fertilized cell implants outside of the uterus where they is not enough room for the cell to divide and grow into a fetus resulting in bleeding and ruptures (as most usually occur in the fallopian tubes). Except for a RARE few, most result in non-viable pregnancies and if left untreated, half will abort themselves and the rest can severely endanger the mother.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            There are a tiny percentage of pregnancies that actually threaten the survival of the mother. And pregnancy is what SEX IS FOR, by the way. Don’t have it if you’re not willing to follow through with its product. And then there’s the Hippocratic Oath, which all people with a “Medical Degree” are sworn to take. Do no harm…how many women died because of Kermit Gosnell’s botched abortions?

          • I saw what happened!

            I was against abortion until ectopic pregnancy happened to me. I was a young mother with a two year old daughter. I chose to abort because there would be not any way of the fetus to survive, eventually the rupture would’ve killed me. What good would’ve come from the pregnancy? none ,the fetus wouldn’t have survived. I chose life and be a living mother for my 2 year old.1 year later I had my son. I know now I cannot keep any woman from doing what she knows is the best decision for her. Thank You…It is not everyday I can explain my abortion. I am a Christian ,but I truly believe God is a forgiving God,and his scriptures tells us when we become a living being.
            Genesis2:7Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and “breathed” into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.

            Ezekial37:5This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life.

            There is nothing in the bible to indicate that a fetus is considered to be anything other than living tissue and, according to scripture, it does not become a living being until after it has taken a breath.

            According to the bible, destroying a living fetus does not equate to killing a living human being even though the fetus has the potential of becoming a human being. One can not kill something that has not been born and taken a breath. This means that a stillborn would not be considered a human being either. Of course, every living sperm has the potential of becoming a human being although not one in a million will make it; the rest are aborted. .

          • Brendan Flood

            I disagree with your statistics.

          • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

            A woman was recently denied an abortion in Ireland. The baby had to die first. After the fetus died she got the abortion, but she died anyway. It was too late to save her.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            That woman had a prior blood condition.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            …the fetus can survive outside the mother. Science has proved it. They are two individual entities.

        • Brendan Flood

          No killing children is awful and horrible. But a fetus is not a child. It is a cluster of cells that is BECOMING a human, but NOT YET! If it threatens the mother’s life, then it is much less important than the mother.

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          • Brendan Flood

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        • Brendan Flood

          yes the mother should be allowed to kill the undborn fetus to save her life. Se can (hopefully) have more children, and also if she dies, the baby will probably die too.

      • Sarah

        Your logic is incredibly skewed. A fetus AND its mother both have a right to live. How could you get such a flawed conclusion from St Kitt’s words?

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      • Alfred E. Newman

        Neither should die- but taking the life of a baby that cannot protect itself is not the answer.

        • Brendan Flood

          You do understand that we’re debating whether or not the fetus even IS a baby, right?

          So please don’t post things just for the sake of posting them.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            This coming from someone that spends all the time screaming at a bunch of internet trolls as if they’ll actually listen to them. Don’t post gtfo just for the sake of your rage, hypocrite.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000679988716 Lisa Shields

          And letting women, who might be mothers of OTHER children die is also not “an answer”.

      • Brendan Flood

        the problem with that is that pregnancy is not some fatal condition, and anti-abortion people say that the only way they would permit abortion is if the mother’s life is in danger.

        • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

          It can be a fatal condition.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            So can breathing, your heartbeat, and pretty much anything you do. Anything can go wrong during ANY biological process.

      • Lisa Shields

        Seriously Lisa… that’s terrible logic. BOTH have a right to life. America is flooded with a generation that is making decisions their parents never did. I guess we’re pretty good at pioneering civil liberties aren’t we? Everything else we do is working out great!

        • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

          Abortion is not new. It has been happening for thousands of years. Legalizing it has made it safe. Women died having abortions. Legal or illegal abortions will not be stopped.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            Women died having abortions in Kermit Gosnell’s legal facility. How does that add into your argument?

      • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

        …how does that make even one iota of sense?

    • Brendan Flood

      She’s taking the position that it’s not, as seen in the title.

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    • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

      A zygote is alive, but it is not a sentient creature or “a person.” It is not self aware. It doesn’t have a brain.

      • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

        And there we have it. It is alive.
        Since when has being self-aware decided personhood? If your grandmother becomes a vegetable, she’s still a person under the law. Once again, your logic is flawed.

        • Anastasia D.

          A sperm cell is alive as well, and is part of the human species. Does it bear personhood because of these conditions?

          • Seriously

            Seriously, do you not know that a sperm cell can’t grow into a human by itself?

    • mm

      if no heart beat no person … a fertilized egg does not start with a heart beat. Either way fetus human or not it is a woman’s choice what happens to her body not yours. What if the government said no man can eat red meat again because it causes clogged arteries and make you more prone to heart attack. are you going to for that?

    • Nicole

      Exactly, why is it that when a pregnant woman is murdered, the murderer is charged with two charges of murder if the fetus is not a human?

  • Melanie

    Hi, I was wondering if Pheo152, you could give me your name. I want to use your article in my research essay. But I feel like my professor won’t take me serious if I use ‘Pheo152′ as my person of choice.

  • Herous

    9/10 logical fallacies. very very bad arguments

    • Jeff

      Failure to explain what the fallacies are makes your argument a fallacy.

      • Logical

        “The sky is blue”, but I’m not going to tell you why…
        Incorrect?

        • Amodernphilosopher

          What gets wetter the more it dries?
          A towel.

  • CJOHNSON

    Nobody’s lives depend on using birth control. If becoming pregnant would be deadly, a more reliable alternative to getting an abortion or using birth control would be to not have sex!

    • Nicole

      then there are those who are in happy marriages who are ready to have kids, get pregnant and then go through complications where the mother will die by carrying the fetus to full-term and they can’t go back and NOT get pregnant so what do they do?

      according to you, no one should get pregnant so abortions won’t be needed.

      • St Kitts

        No that’s not what he is saying at all. He is saying that in the cases where people don’t want to have kids, then not having sex would be a good way to avoid it. And once again, if it comes down to life of the mother and you have to choose between two lives then abortion should be allowed. However, that is the ONLY scenario when abortion should be permissible. A child, born or unborn, has the same worth as the mother. And a mother has the same worth as her child, born or unborn. Therefore, abortion should only be allowed in the case of life of the mother.

        • Alucard291

          Mother has same worth as 2 cells inside her body. Thats epic logic. So you would prefer that women would abort children via a kick to the stomach? Because they will. Just as they have been doing through the centuries.

          Oh and where did you learn to portray your opinions as written truths. Most secular countries have long ago decided on reasonable guidelines of a timefram pastwhich a fetus is considered to be a full living creature and in most cases destruction of a collection of non intelligent cells is considered normal. Like I don’t know? Removing the appendix?

          In fact you may notice how weak the anti-abortion argument is in western europe. That in large part is also due to the fact that europe has much fairer equality stance between men and women which allows a woman to choose what she can do with her own body. As opposed to your sexist land of the unequal and the unfree.

          • St Kitts

            Start at the moment before birth. Is the fetus a human being at that point? If you say no, then you’re insane. If you say yes, then work backwards and tell me the magical moment of transformation where an unborn child suddenly loses their right to life.

          • Brendan Flood

            This is not the same St Kitts, don’t cop other people’s names please.

          • Brendan Flood

            Alucard, you are some fan of hellsing who obviously cares for this subject, but don’t really know how to participate in a non-patronizing/arrogant/pricky way.

            Also the reason why it’s weaker in Europe is because they’re not nearly as religious as the US is. There’s nothing wrong with people’s religious beliefs being part of their argument; all they have to do is win.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            Europe, I’m sad to say, has proven to be a cesspool of stupidity.

            And that zygote isn’t two cells, moron. It’s one.

            Unequal? Unfree? Perhaps to voice opinions that differ from yours, in your mind…if you love Europe so much, get out of here.

  • CJOHNSON

    “Pro-lifers” are not necessarily “child-lovers.” They just believe that children should be allowed to live, as their name suggests. They could be 80-year old women that hate children, but they believe that people should not kill.

    • Alucard291

      It is a dark and horrifying world where an existing intelligent living creature has less value than a tiny collection of biological matter inside the body of the said living creature.

      But that’s what happens when your values are based on medieval morality system combined with beliefs imprinted by a “holy book” that allows and even encourages specific murder but discourages murder in general.

      • M. T. Lovato

        We’re bringing this back to whether or not your “tiny collection of biological matter” is a living creature or not.

        And your condescension, which is pretty much nothing more than ad hominem, is no way to defend a topic. Nor does it do anything to assist in your trying to reach a potential audience.

      • Alfred E. Newman

        So Alucard- when is it alright to kill the baby? 5 weeks? 12 weeks? How about 21 weeks? It is a dark world when we decide to kill those who cannot defend themselves. What is next, the mentally retarded? Oh, how about those on ventilators?

      • Brendan Flood

        You make the assumption that everyone who is pro-life is doing it for religious reasons. No, some people are pro-life because they think that killing a baby is wrong (although it’s up for debate if fetus is a baby at all).

        Also, people’s reasons for abortion are not always because the mother’s life is in danger. There are financial reasons, and the fact that it’s 9 months of a mother’s life wasted on a baby that she doesn’t even want.

        Also, don’t act like some know-it-all prick. It’s very annoying and people would take you more seriously if you did.

      • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

        …is it? So what about all these animals we’re protecting? How are they worth more than we are, so much so as to be protected by law?

        …you’re a disgrace to the very name of a fictional character, you know.

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  • nahaaa

    Yes, a fetus is a human being a tiny baby, but many will never understand many reasons, rape and incest are not the only reasons for abortion. Perhaps it is the lack of knowldedge, inexperience, etc. wether the choice is right or wrong, it is them who will go trhough it, abortion will be never ending. Every woman has a choice over her body and every woman knows that a fetus is alive and not only a mass of tissue, but they are too afraid to accept it because of the inside pain it provokes and because they want to feel like what they have done is not wrong. We all know abortion is wrong, but until you live through someones life, you have no say and will never understand. pro life or pro choice you have your reasons and maybe if you are pro life some day you’ll be pro choice and if you’re pro choice you’ll end up being pro life.

  • Ashley

    “Life begins at conception.” Individuals opposing this view have been
    known to state the fact that the fetus is not a human life so it is alright to
    destroy it. I believe those idiots tend to miss the fact you are taking
    away the human life before it has even formed. Thus, taking away the unborn
    baby’s right to life.

    • Aconcernedneighbour

      You seem to have a
      very
      strange way of formatting
      your
      points when typing on the internet.
      Does this have
      Anything to do
      With your beliefs?

  • Erin

    This is a bunch of justifications. Whatever to make you feel better. Our society has come to the point of eye rolling when the word “God” is brought up, but there is every bit as much physical evidence that he exists than he doesn’t. You can want to believe what you want, but it doesn’t really matter what you believe. It only matters what is actual truth. So you can listen to your science professors and your neighbors telling you God and religion are yesterday, and that it’s okay to abort your fetus, but when you stand at the judgment seat of of God, all of your justifications will not even reach your lips. They will be nothing. You will have a perfect knowledge of your guilt. The only way to know if God exists and if he cares if you have an abortion, is to ask him in prayer. If you have never sincerely asked him if he is there, there is no way you can know he is not.

    • Bobby

      So what is the truth? Truth will always stay subjective and just like you said, “you can want to believe what you want, but it doesn’t really matter what you believe.” How do you know that God exists and how do you know that your version, or your interpretation of God is correct over the other ones? The only reason that you believe in christianity or whatever form of religion is because you were TOLD or taught about it. God may exist, but everything that is written or said about God is complete bull shit written by people. The truth is that bible has been influenced by many other sources and have been edited before the 4th century. The fact is you will never know for sure or anyone else for that matter. Basing your logic on religious belief is idiotic and you should be able to separate your religious belief from a topic such as this, especially when you are trying to prove a point.

      • Erin

        If you’ve never asked, you can never know. I have, and I know. And I know you don’t believe it and won’t believe it ever, because you don’t really want to know.

      • Erin

        So because people have edited the Bible, God does not exist. Because people believe different things, and therefore truth SEEMS subjective, there must not actually be any truth, just a bunch of people’s opinions. Because I was taught to believe in God must mean that he actually does not exist, and that I am just a blind follower. Because you (and many people for that matter) have not asked God if he exists, this means that no one has, and no one really knows. And if we think we have and we do know, we are delusional. This does not make any sense.

        And to answer your last point about basing logic on religion is idioc, I just thought others had already done a good job pointing out the law. If the fetus is a baby, it doesn’t matter if the “mother is important” or if “men created the law” or anything else. The law is to protect all people. That is well-said. The logic and law of pro-life is so obvious that those who don’t believe it I am certain only do so for selfish, justification reasons. I just wanted to point out that there is more to this than logic. But of course, it’ll be after your dead until you really see.

        • Erin

          Sorry, Bobby, I just realized I didn’t read your comment carefully. You said God may exist, but things that were written about God are bogus, so we can’t really know for sure. I just want to say that IF God does exist, (and that is something everyone, no matter what they believe, must acknowledge is a possibility), the stakes are very high with the abortion issue. Therefore, I suggest that everyone not take their chances and guess. Just ask God (in SINCERE prayer) and find out if he is there, and if he cares if you have an abortion. As simple as that.

  • jane

    If you don’t like abortion, then don’t get one.

    • St Kitts

      If you don’t like murder, don’t murder anyone. If you don’t like stealing, don’t steal from anyone.
      “I notice that everyone who is for abortion is already alive.” Ronald Reagan

      • Fail Whales

        “Facts are stupid things.” – Reagan

      • Nicole

        Funny thing is, some people LIKE to murder and steal…and they actually DO it.

        • St Kitts

          My point was that saying “If you don’t like abortion, dont have one” has the same logic as what I said about murder and theft- in other words, none

    • my penis

      Im a 13 year old guy and ive had an abortion with swagger so lick my balls

      • Brendan Flood

        If you love yourself SOOOOOO much, then why don’t you just GO FUCK YOURSELF!

  • jane

    we kill our pets and flake off skin cells every day. we pour billions of dollars into systemized slaughter the government calls “war”. there is no such thing as pro-life.

    • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

      Neither is there such a thing as pro-choice, then. I’m pro-choice in the term of wanting women TO CHOOSE LIFE!!!

  • jane

    if a woman is given the ability to create life, why shouldn’t she be able to end it too? forcing women to carry children to term is an undue labor and causes much more misery and poverty for both mother and child than the other option

    • EraEye

      Then she should have been more responsible in the first place. Unless the mother’s labor risks her life that may end up killing the mother and the child, abortion isn’t an option. Killing someone for your rights isn’t right.

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  • Ben

    This is a ridiculous post. No evidence for po choice was given. Only false assumptions on those that are pro life. A child is alive at conception, which makes abortion murder. Is murder really just religious ideology?

  • Em

    It’s not an opinion.. science has proved that life begins at conception. 35,000,000 babies have been aborted since the 1970s. 1% of all abortions are results of rape.. not 33%. Huge difference. These arguments are avoiding reality, and while there is a huge disadvantage for the woman (and for her I do feel sorry) no child should be ripped out of the womb and cut to pieces or burned by chemicals. I hate to be graphic but there is no pretty way of aborting a baby. If it has life, you have to kill it to get rid of it. Also, there are one to two million Americans waiting to adopt each year.

    • my penis

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  • dcpwnsu18

    omg. All it is is a mass of cells. stop complaining no one cares its going to always be legal. and should be. Any women should have the choice to have a kid or not. Wether you believe that or not it doesnt matter your not gonna stop abortion.

    • Brett

      “All it is is a mass of cells.” Is that based on research you did? Since you’re talking about “cells” I think the best folks to ask would be biologists. So do some research and see if the overriding consensus among biologists is that “all it is is a mass of cells.” I used to think like you until someone challenged me to research the facts. You’ll find it very informative to hear what biologists say are facts, not opinions.

  • Pro-Life

    I think I’m going to throw up now.

    • Pro-er than Pro-Life

      You know, throwing up actually kills the bacteria living in your stomach. So, are you just saying that bacteria don’t deserve to live? Why should my tax money go towards the mass-murder-genocide of innocent human DNA amoebas?
      You’re just another reminder of what a throwaway society we live in today…

  • Coco

    I want to say something, and I hope that I’m not ripped apart. Not that I mind, but still; I’d like to believe that some of you lot are actually reasonable human beings.

    I am 18 years old. A month ago I was hospitalized by my parents because of an ongoing phase of depression that had begun to take a physical toll on me.

    On my first day at the hospital, I met a girl a year younger than me. She’d been admitted a few days before, for the same reason. It turned out upon arrival that she was a month pregnant.

    I spoke to her three weeks later and found out she’d had an abortion. Tell me, in her frame of mind, could you have expected her to react differently? She was already prepared to kill herself.

    Women and men alike can say what they want about abortion being morally wrong, scientifically abhorrent… it doesn’t matter. To me, this opinion speaks of a society that is simply unwilling to think about abortion in clear terms and measure all criteria evenly. Abortion will always be an out for women who are terrified at the prospect of pregnancy – what if parents kick their pregnant teens out, leaving these girls (as well as their unborn children) completely helpless? What does that accomplish at all? I know for certain that if I became pregnant at a young age, my parents would disown me.

    Historically speaking, abortion has been accomplished in any manner imaginable: women have thrown themselves down stairs, drunk enough to kill the fetus, even killed themselves. Oftentimes, after an unwanted child is born, it will endure years and years of abuse, physical or emotional. And if an adoptive mother can’t be found for an infant, it will simply grow into the foster system. Statistically speaking, none of these things are safe.

    I do not see abortion as a question of morality at all. It’s as logical as any medical procedure, although there will always be a percentage of women who are, shall we say, irresponsible and cruel enough to want to ‘get rid’ of a fetus they see as a nuisance. But if asked whose life – even whose health – I value more, my answer will always be the mother’s.

    I have no doubt that the girl I met would have killed herself had she not been granted an abortion. Be as nasty as you want, say she made those decisions to get herself into that position. Then do me a favor and imagine what it would be like to have someone call you so deplorable. She did the sensible thing. An unborn fetus in the first trimester is entirely dependent on its mother’s health… it can hardly be called a separate entity.

    In any case, abortion will remain legal, and I hope if you’re fighting against it, you have a better reason than ‘It’s wrong.’ Wake up. It’s 2012.

    • Zelch

      So in order to save a female’s emotional health kill the child. as you have seen if you read even a little bit of the posts on here you would realize that people have many more than “It’s wrong.” Saying that it’s 2012 wake up isn’t an argument, what that is, is using the time period to describe what is considered morally correct. you just sound silly. I’m going to go ahead and say that if that girl hadn’t had sex she wouldn’t have been pregnant. I’m not blaming her, I’m saying why does the child need to pay for the choices of someone too inconsiderate to think of the consequences of her actions.

      • Dido

        Having the child live would not be the best thing to do either. It would cause strain emotionally and financially on the mother because taking care of a child is definitely not an easy task. Abstinence is also quite laughable because in this day and age there is no such thing, since most adolescents are sexually active at a certain age. The more plausible way to prevent abortion is by educating young women about sex and taking advantage of contraceptives which is why in Western Europe abortion rates are much lower than the States because they have a wider knowledge of contraceptives and sex in general. In my opinion the woman should have the choice of whether she wants to terminate the pregnancy or not. Nobody else should determine what goes on in her uterus, or any part of her body, as a matter of fact.

        • Dido

          What I find is ironic is that in Western Europe the laws are extremely liberal concerning abortions yet they have the lowest abortion rates :)

          • my penis

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          • Brendan Flood

            apparantly people who are capable of having a life, which does not include you, I might add

        • YOLO IN UR PENIS

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          • Dido

            Thank you :)

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            At last, someone finally starves the troll to their face…differing opinion or not, well done.

        • mark

          Change these things. It is better to learn to abstain or give a child up for adoption than to kill them in the whom. You can not talk about human rights in one case and then take the rights from babies in the whom.
          Also, as a man, it is funny to say that I should not have a say in the matter. Should I sit back and let sexually depraved women set up laws that do actually destroy the culture in which I live just because they say I should not have an opinion because I can not get pregnant. Should I sit back and allow women to make sandwiches out of their children just because they say my opinions don’t matter? Really, how far away from dismembering your own children is cannibalism? Abortion should be game over for these people, not a license continue life in such a way as to risk more abortions. Many women have several abortions in a lifetime. That is fact. Many women who have had abortions want other women to see it as a birth control option. Abortion destroys life. Culture is made up of life. Culture is destroyed by Abortion. Culture is not healed by abortion, it is not built by abortion, it is not sustained by abortion. Abortion destroys culture. I am a man in this world, and I don’t want children murdered in my town, in the next town all the way across this nation. Planned parenthood thrives on abortion money. To say that prolife politicians serve special interests. Which ones? How do they really collect money off of being prolife more than abortion clinics? I just don’t see that one.

          • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

            I completely agree.

          • Dido

            About that, I didn’t mean that men should not have a say in the matter, my apologies. The man if it is his child should get a say in the matter.

      • Brendan Flood

        completely correct.

        • YOLO IN UR PENIS

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      • FreedomofChoice

        oh my god shut the fuck up and get your stuck up nose out of your bible for 2 fucking seconds. what that girl does with her life is none of your nosy ass business, stop trying to control everyone! you’re controlling a personal choice, are you not? you’re controlling a personal choice, are you not? make any arguement on the science and mentality you want, BUT YOU ARE FUCKING CONTROLLING SOMEONE YOU DONT EVEN KNOW’S PERSONAL LIFE CHOICE, ARE YOU NOT

        • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

          Since when has Zelch even quoted the bible, you liberal moron? and do you think that baby’s life isn’t being controlled in being aborted?

      • mark

        Not to mention that these children grow into adults who may or not value life. How about survivors of abortion? Here in 30 years, we will have a whole collection of adults who survived abortion, and they will speak out about this culture of death. And then people will see how wrong it is.

      • http://www.facebook.com/margie.miller.180 Margie Miller

        I guess you would rather she killed herself. An embryo is not a child. I find the level of sensitivity of anti-abortion activist to be very low.

        • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

          The same could be said for the other side of the coin, Margie. But of course, you aren’t willing to flip the coin over to the real side.

      • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

        Zelch, you are awesome. :)

    • my penis

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      • Brendan Flood

        well considering u fucking trolled the whole page ur a fucking hypocrytic fuck hole!

    • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

      …what a world it is, when people cite the year as being good enough of a reason to slaughter a helpless infant in what should be its first sanctuary…

  • Brianna

    Female pro-lifer here. Really your only argument that stands is your argument about women who have health issues during pregnancy. In this instance, I would favor abortion. In all other instances, I consider it to be a highly unethical practice. I am not a religious person, so the accusation that my being pro-life is based on religious convictions is invalid. Also, your argument that pro-life politicians are trying to keep women in the home to be controlled is simply naive and ludicrous. Your position really is baseless. I have yet to see a convincing pro-choice argument.

  • Harold

    Why is it that we can legally endorse the wholesale slaughter of innocents, that is no different than Herod’s atrocities, but yet assisted suicide and/or euthanasia is rebuked!!!!!!!! You have on one hand a burgeoning life and future vs a terminal painful existence that is ready to leave the planet? This is total insanity….. Why is it unreasonable that if a man or woman brings about an unwanted pregnancy twice that they are summarily sterilized. That alone, would eliminate a vast amount of unwanted children.

  • Rocker

    Funny how Jane Roe is now Pro-Life

    • YOLO IN UR PENIS

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  • Pineapple

    You’re fucked up

    • my penis

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      • Brendan Flood

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  • Wall

    Some of these reasons seem to be rather ignorant.. 1 in 3 women will be a victim of sexual violence, that does NOT mean that 33% of women will become pregnant from that so called sexual violence and be forced to carry out a child because of the sexual violence. Abortions accounting for rapes, and life threatening situations to the mother represent a mere 1% of all abortions. And before all of you baby killers try to argue that a fetus is not a human being all you have to do is look at the stages of child development while inside a mother’s womb. At 8 weeks a child is scientifically considered a “fetus”, at this point in time a child already has eyes, eye lids, a nose, a mouth, and a tongue. At ten weeks a CHILD (still considered a “fetus” to the people who rationalize the killing of innocent human beings) can make bodily movements(A time period in which a woman can still have an abortion). I believe it is quite sad that there are on average 1.5 million abortions per year and that the deadliest place in the world to reside is now a mothers womb. I am not here to be a shovenist, but some women will take it that way because they are just gung-ho since the 1920’s about every right they can get their hands on. The law may say it is legal to perform abortions in this country but IS IT RIGHT? Screw the law for one minute here and actually consider whether it is right to have an abortion. The law nowadays helps too many people rationalize things being “the right thing” when it truly is not, a law is nothing but a regulation to maintain order within the American population.

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  • Jeff

    I was looking for real points of proof. This is the dumbest blog. Check your facts. If you want to help the abortion cause do the research. You sound like you’re a 15 yr. old arguing with their parents about curfew…Dumb…78,000 die from unsafe abortions each year all while abortion has been legal? Are you kidding me? Even if it was true, you’re using that as an argument for abortion? Pull your head out and tell your civic teacher to come up with some real help before launching out on your class project.

    • my penis

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      • ASG

        They’re, not their. If your going to attack someones intelligence make sure you spell your words correctly.

        • Nice try!

          If you’re going to attack someone’s spelling, then make sure you use apostrophes correctly…

  • Anonymous

    Besides skipping the crux of the matter you provided little proof instead attacking the reputation of pro-lifers, even if they are all obsessed with being rich and powerful how does that change the facts of their argument?

  • Ismaila Singley

    I am prochoice too.

    • my penis

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  • angel

    I have had two abortions. None which I regret. They were the best decisions I have ever made. A fetus in the firdt few trimesters is not a child. If you brought a fetus that is 9 weeks outside of the womb would it in any way survive? Absolutely not. How in any way is that a child? Personhood does not start at conception. Abortion is legal for a reason and that will not change. The world is moving forward, NOT backwards. Sorry, actually I’m not. The only thing I’m sorry about is that it took so long to legalize abortion, sorry that thousands of women died because they didnt have access to safe abortions.

    • my penis

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    • Tianna_Maria

      Studies showing fetus
      development in the womb show that just after one month the “baby” has already
      begun to form its brain, as well it has a spinal cord now officially in place.
      At two months all of the baby’s main organs have started to form and it has
      fingers, toes, and bumps on either side of his head that are early ears. At month three the baby is now
      technically called a fetus and about the size of a grape. All of the organ systems are
      now in place and the baby may squint, open her mouth, and flex fingers and
      toes. Because the fetus is still relatively small, the mother won’t feel this
      movement…but that does not mean that it is not happening. Just after three months since conception all
      these changes and formation is taking place inside the womb…the baby is
      developing…its LIFE has started.

  • Vaspasian

    A fetus is not a human being. Before birth, and therefore without something to be relative to, no one is “alive.” The real problem with the lifer argument is that they claim victory based on “ideological” arguments. Neither Lifers of Choicers are “correct,” but there is no place in American democracy for religious legislation.

  • Dr. Seuss

    The cat in the hat is back.

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      • Brendan Flood

        Leave intelligent discussions to intelligent people!

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    • Brendan Flood

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  • Tyler

    Concerning the “Mass of Cells Debate” I believe once the sperm has fertilized the egg then is should be considered a human child. This is mainly do to the fact that the first domino has been set into motion (fertilization) and if the zygote implants itself in the womb then it WILL in time become a fully grown human child unless complications occur. Where as simple human sperm or eggs by them selves will NEVER become a child unless they are introduced to one another for fertilization. So I hope that can end the argument of comparing a condom to murder because there is no possibility of a child.
    P.S. I am not a medical professorial by any means nor do I have a professional understanding of the growth of a fetus.

    • YOLO IN UR PENIS

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  • Cam

    10. A fair point, and one of the few that makes me reluctantly pro-choice.
    9. I agree, but these methods are not mutually exclusive from a ban on abortion.
    8. Here your points start to fall apart. This one in particular is completely irrelevant; it’s a red herring.
    7. This seems to be an unwarranted and crude attack on Christianity and religion as a whole. Regardless, it is irrelevant as well. It also makes the assumption that everyone that thinks abortion is morally reprehensible must be a Christian. I am not religious and I believe abortion is unsupportable based entirely on ethics… it’s a field of philosophy, maybe you’ve heard of it.
    6. The logical fallacies continue, this time with a slippery slope argument.
    5. I would reject this claim outright as being patently FALSE and unsupportable by evidence. There have been a multitude of polls conducted; in some, men were slightly more pro-life, while in others, women were. In all cases the difference was only by a few percentage points;
    4. It’s definitely easier to be sympathetic to a rape victim getting an abortion, but in the end the issue for many who find abortion unethical is whether or not it is justifiable to end a human life just because that life is the product of rape.
    3. See number 9. Contraceptives and proper education do a better job preventing unwanted children than abortions.
    2. In the very rare case that a woman faces a high risk of death as the result of pregnancy, abortion may be a permissible option, ethically speaking, as it preserves an existing life at the expense of a potential life (and depending on the situation, the unborn child may not survive anyways).
    1. It is not illogical or foolish. A Government’s laws reflect the ethics of the society it represents. There is a long history of government restrictions on issues of medical ethics. Non-maleficence, eugenics, cloning, euthanasia, confidentiality requirements, etc.

  • Terri

    You don’t mention any of the negative consequences both physical and psychological from having ones child aborted. A young friend of mine is permanently in pain as a result. These after-effects are rarely mentioned. Why?

    • Dido

      That is why one has a choice whether they want to go through with an abortion or not. They are not being forced to do it.

  • Mary

    Whether or not a fetus is a human depends on your personal opinion.

  • Jaebee

    It seems rather dumb to make preeclampsia a reason for abortion. While it does affect 10-15% of women, not in the severity you’re giving it. It’s just high blood pressure. While it can result in severe problems, it’s rare. Also, the argument of birth control does not directly relate to abortion. I’m assuming you’re considering all republicans to share all beliefs, which is rarely the case. I have no conflict, personally, with birth control being available to anyone who needs it regardless of income. You’re correct that if more people got on board with that, then several abortions wouldn’t happen. If a woman was raped, she could simply go to the local pharmacy and take Plan B as soon as she could. (I’m aware that like all birth controls, it’s not 100%) I’ve been the girl whose calling up friends to borrow money because she made a mistake last night- the prices are steep! I’m all for stopping abortions before they happen. However, in your own entry, you portray the same emotion – showing that you feel the need for an abortion not to “need to” happen. So, I can only assume you yourself see the moral dilemma. Lets take religion out of it. If you were to murder a man, would you get away with it just because you don’t follow a religion? Could you say, “I don’t follow a religion where killing is a sin, therefore I can kill?” No, because in this country we make laws out of morality. So religion is not required to argue the point. Once an egg has been fertilized, it is a life.

  • sara

    I bet Abortion will be like slavery was in a few years. Everyone knew it was wrong, but were to scared to live without it. There will be history books saying, ‘The worst mistake our country ever made, legalizing Abortion. Worse than slavery. It will be the horror of the world. 3,500 babies were killed a DAY.’ LET YOUR BABY LIVE!!!

  • Kateri

    I notice everyone says, “It’s a womans right to choose if she wants to abort her baby.” How about a womans right to be born?

    Everyone who supported slavery was free.
    Everyone who supports abortion is already born.
    That’s how OPPRESSION works.

  • FreedomofChoice

    If you’re a dude you shouldn’t even be allowed to comment right now I mean really..
    all these people complaining about abortions down here are dudes.

  • Brandon flood hater

    Brandon flood lol ur a hypocritical fucktard. I’ve read all the posts and the only thing you’ve done is be a mitt romney and flip flop. While SOME of your arguements may be valid, your going about the wrong way. Telling people to shut up and calling people whores even if they are trolling makes you look like a dumbass. Just for future reference. Lol

  • jg123

    I’m a law student…
    From a purely legal standpoint, the legalization of abortion contradicts
    otherwise unchallenged homicide laws:
    – If a pregnant woman is murdered while she is pregnant, the
    murderer is guilty of double-homicide, regardless of the age of the fetus.
    – If a pregnant woman survives an assault, and she
    miscarries, the attacker is guilty of murder, regardless of the age of the
    fetus.
    – If a person recklessly collides with a pregnant woman, and
    she miscarries, that person is guilty of manslaughter, regardless of the age of
    the fetus.

    It’s also interesting to point out that the law gives
    property rights to fetuses and “human clumps of cells.” In other words, you can write a human fetus into your will at the moment it’s conceived; the law treats that human fetus
    the same way human adults are treated. In contrast, you can’t write a tree sapling into your will because even
    though it’s a living clump of cells, it lacks human DNA and is therefore not human. Thus, (ii) the law traditionally protects
    living clumps of human cells, and (ii) does not care whether a human is at the “clump of cells,” fetal, or adult stage…it will be treated equally upon creation.

    Also, being a law student I should address #7 above. Religious ideology actually is the foundation of virtually all modern law.
    American laws derive from England’s “common law.” “Common law” derives from Roman law. Roman law derives from Canon Law. Canon Law was created by the Catholic Church, borrowing from Judeo-Christian law and a little ancient Greek law. Most notably the Ten Commandments have impacted virtually all legal systems: Don’t murder, don’t steal, don’t lie, etc. But in America the law does not force people to worship God, nor does it ban the worship of God. That is religious freedom.

    Slavery existed not long ago in the U.S…an evil period in
    history when dark-skinned people were considered sub-human animals that white-skinned people could abuse, kill, buy and sell. Slave-owners believed slavery was moral; they
    even went to war to defend such evil. History has revealed how misguided and immoral they were. Abortion is our generation’s slavery, and there is no satisfactory way of explaining its immorality to those who attempt to justify it. They are prisoners of failed logic and a vain attempt at self-empowerment. Abortion is not empowering. Giving life is empowering. They are determined to devalue the human dignity of the unborn, but fail to see their folly: they’re simultaneously devaluing their own human worth. The Devil makes fools of so many.

    • Ahhhhh

      Abortion has been happening pre – BC…sorry bud, but no matter what laws were put in place after the fact is not going to change that women are going to do… whatever they are going to do. Call me AFTER you pass the Bar. ;)

      • http://www.facebook.com/hiram.d.johnson Hiram Davis Johnson

        That’s just insulting…and just because cannibalism happened pre-BC doesn’t mean we’re still doing it, does it?

  • Gabrielle

    i would just like to say one thing– # 7 “Religious ideology is no foundation for any law. ” I think that you should look into this topic a little more before making such a statement. Research has revealed that several founding fathers of this very country had “religious ideology”, and even began the first continental congress meeting with prayer. In addition, “immoral” does not seem an appropriate word to use in reference to religion affecting law, considering immoral, by definition, means violating moral principles; this does not make much sense when religion concerns morals, so how would this be “violating moral principles”?

    In addition, I am wondering what you mean by this statement: “laws that declare it is legal to sell one’s daughter, rape someone, or keep a person as a slave—all things that are promoted in religious text.” Where and in what religious text have you seen these laws, specifically, these laws being promoted? And, if you are suggesting the bible as I assume you are, I would like to know the references. I suggest you check your sources before you make statements as these, as there is a distinction between Old-testament laws and what Christians today believe and follow.

    • pier

      Gabrielle is correct on both parts.
      The author of this website has made many obvious false assumptions and relied on numerous half-truths.
      One example is the author’s attempt to make Religion “the bad guy.” The obvious false assumption is that only religious people think abortion is immoral. Obviously countless Non-religious people recognize that abortion is immoral! Just as countless Non-religious people recognize that slavery, murder, stealing, etc. is immoral! It’s not a “Religious ideology”; it’s a moral truth.
      The Bible is a library…a collection of books, historical accounts, parables, poems, prophesies, etc…there are many genres in the Bible. In some of the biblical stories there are accounts of war, violence, rape, and injustice. But just like a Time magazine or Wikipedia article, it’s just explaining what happened thousands of years ago, not endorsing immoral behavior.
      Food for thought: if women should have the right to kill an unborn child when it’s “a clump of living cells,” should children have the right to desecrate women’s bodies when women die? In other words, when a woman dies she is literally “a large clump of DEAD cells,” so would it be immoral for children to decide to have their mother’s brains sucked out of their skulls through a tube in the same way a fetus’s brain is sucked out during an abortion?
      I think that would be immoral even though the dead woman is a large dead clump of cells. Likewise, I think abortion is immoral, even though for a brief period the baby is a cluster of living cells.

  • pier
  • mark

    You say most people who are against abortion wont ever become pregnant. That is simply not true to begin with. And men have a say, because guess what, men are just as likely to be born as women. Have you ever heard of survivors of abortion? Have you ever heard of women having the children as opposed to killing them? Have you heard of regret? Abortion and contraception was created by men in order to use women sexually without the “consequences” of pregnancy. As far as special interests, look deeper into the abortion industry and the business of making huge profits off of killing babies in the family planning centers. The motto of the pro choice movement is not “women’s rights of reproduction”, it is “having sex with men, and covering it up by killing babies”. Should there be a law that allows you to kill people to cover up your mistakes? Life would be a lot easier if I didn’t have to clean the house after moving out, or if I went over my minutes on my cellphone, or traffic tickets? It could be solved easy enough by killing the people who bring it to my attention that I’ve made a mistake. And for the small percent of rape and incest, many women regret having abortions even in those cases. Religions tries to address these problems of sexual impurity. Rape, incest, and promiscuous sex are all symptoms of some deeper issues which result in abortions. Religion tries to address these.

    • For Your Information

      I’d like to notify you that even God creates abortions, in the form of miscarriages. Also, men didn’t create abortion “in order to use women sexually without the ‘consequences’ of pregnancy,” as you, uh, elegantly put it. In fact, men most likely did not even create abortion or contraception. This practice has been going on for hundreds of years, with or without the consent of a man. This comment is extremely disrespectful to women. It is the ignorant type of comment one would expect to hear from a male chauvinist pig.

      • Della

        God “creates” abortions? You call a miscarriage a form of ABORTION?? Miscarriages are a result of the Fall of Man. God may allow a miscarriage, but that doesn’t mean that He had wanted it to happen.

        • Carolina

          You’re kidding, right?
          Miscarriages are a failed pregnancy, mainly because something is wrong with the embryo or fetus that makes impossible any further development. Has nothing to do with god.

  • ASG

    Well lets get a bit deeper into what exactly makes a human human. A human isnt human because they have the genetic and biological make up of a human. No what seperates humans from other animals, and what gives those humans a right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness is in fact concious thought. This defines us and makes us sentient thinking beings cabale of not only grasping the concept of life and death, but also makes us capable of understanding the world and the ideas in the world. There are 4 types of living thing that cant do this, those are bateria, plants, animals, and a human fetus.

    • Kat

      I’m sorry to inform you that bacteria and plants do not have a brain. Therefore, they are not capable of conscious thought. In regards to animals, many have a very small amount of intelligence, and this is in no way comparable to human intelligence. Except in the case of chimpanzees and other complex and intelligent beings. As for a human fetus, it is not capable of conscious thought while it is an embryo, which is when abortion would occur. Before you post ignorant comments, you should really research your topic and not just make something up and add fancy words to make you sound intelligent. Just a heads up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/katherine.a.chavez Katie Chavez

    1) #7 is funny, because the whole premise of division of church and state is a christian premise.

    most of the other arguments are against the people who believe and fight for these things, not really any evidence actually supporting abortion.

    … am I the only one who sees that the whole argument is a stretch and pro-choice is starting to resemble pro-slavery arguments in addressing how human a human is?? A human is HUMAN, PERIOD. So this particular human makes your life difficult. You can’t just kill every human that does that, and it’s especially wrong to kill your own offspring that can’t even defend itself.
    Southern doctors had all kinds of arguments as to why african americans were unequal to whites… DOCTORS found them medically unequal. So really. It’s quite simple. HUMAN IS HUMAN. It’s not just cells… like a mole or something. You’re removing it because it will be a human. Now if it’s proven that these cells will kill you, then by all means, remove them… but, don’t just haphazardly kill.
    And as for the “this will happen anyway, so let’s just make it safe” argument. Murder is inherently dangerous… I wish I could take some jerk that cut me off in traffic to the murder store and drop him off and wipe my hands. It would be a lot safer than me going and trying to kill him… knowing that I might face jail time, or they might fight back and I’ll get injured/killed in the process.
    Murder happens anyway… there’s no reason to open a murder clinic to keep it safer.

    Women have rights and we also have the honor of making babies. Men have the honor of fighting wars (mostly). So our lives aren’t bubble-wrapped in equality. Things don’t always go your way. You can’t go around killing people to make it better. JEEZ!

  • josh

    who cares about abortion…shit happens…

  • cathie

    abortion it’s killing it’s illegal after birth why is it legal before killing is killing and it’s worst because you are killing an inocent baby I know they say it’s a woman’s right but what about the baby’s right

  • Dan

    This is one of the most pathetic defenses of abortion I have read yet. Did a teenage girl write this?

    10) Laws against murder don’t stop murder, it doesn’t mean we should make it legal. Idiot’s argument.

    9) Not even an argument for abortion, just and idea of what people should do.

    8) Again, not an argument for abortion, just obvious comment. News flash BTW, people are only after self-interest, which is why we accept the risk ending a life that is possibly human in exchange for 9 months of convenience.

    7) Once again, not even addressing an issue in this argument. . .

    6) This goes both ways.If you can decided who/what is human and who/what is not, what is to stop you from deciding a one year old is not human? Or a slave? Or a jew?

    5) Most people who are against rape will never become rapists. Another irrelevant fact.

    4) Rape and incest make up less than 2% of abortions. Why are you even bringing this into the argument? Laws are made based on the exception cases.

    3) The first legitimate argument in this whole article. However, it misses the main argument here which is when does life start.

    2) No one is seriously arguing that when a woman’s life is at risk that abortions she be illegal. I completely agree that in these cases abortions are appropriate. But again, these are the exceptions.

    1) This is an opinion and again, misses the whole basis of the pro-life argument.

    Next time you decide to make a list of arguments, try checking our the counter arguments first. You completely ignored every main issue in this debate.

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  • Nicole

    Arguing about what constitutes life at whatever stage in development is moot…abortion is not and will not be going anywhere…there has been evidence of abortions occurring since 1760….BC! Shouldn’t we have solved this problem by now? I mean, it’s only been happening since the beginning of time. If a woman wants to abort that bad, she will find a way. Coat hangers, back alley Doctors, potentially deadly cocktails to induce contractions… And “God” aborts “babies” too, the technical term for miscarriage is spontaneous abortion. Uh oh!

  • Rosie

    I hate when they say abortion is murder. The fetus is not actually alive yet. It’s not a person, although it could be. It merely has potential. Do you know what else has potential? The 400,000 eggs god gave me. Each one of those eggs could not be fertilized, its impossible. God made it impossible….. I do hope this made sense, I’m rather young- Rosie

    • IceWhisper Flux

      So, why not remove those “400,000” eggs? Why not remove any chance of pregnancy and then just adopt when you decide that having a child is okay?

      Science dictates that from conception that “clump of cells” IS a human being, completely separate from the mother. Eggs and sperm are genetically identical to the female/male, respectively. They have potential to become new human beings, but ONLY when they meet each other and fertilization begins. You did not “magically” become a human being at… whatever time people are claiming “humanity” spawns in the life cycle. You were a human being, you were YOU at conception. You were just smaller, but you were forming, growing, adapting, etc. You had the same DNA that you have now when you were a “clump of cells” or a fetus. You were not your mother’s egg, you were not your father’s sperm. Once that sperm entered the egg, YOU were being formed and a new human being arose.

      As a “little” side note: did you know that abortionists have to count the number of limbs from the abortion to make sure they “got everything”? Early in the first trimester, limbs have already grown. I guarantee that the abortionists know that “it” is a child, but they would avoid telling you. Just as it seems so many of their employees seem to know practically nothing about the life cycle. I also seem to find that abortion clinics do not even provide ultrasounds for women, they just provide some “info” (oh, its not a baby, your life will be better), but so many women do not even know what things look like “in there”.
      There are testimonies of women that used to be pro-choice and worked at abortion clinics, but then they saw what REALLY happened in that enclosed room and they found out just how little they knew of the human life cycle. Many have changed their views because they realized that “it” IS a human being, deserving of life.

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  • Kat

    It seems like most people on here are just thinking about what constitutes a living being or not- an embryo, or an actual, born child? That is simply a matter of opinion, and we could waste years arguing our opinion, because nobody will want to listen to anyone’s opinion but their own. Although this is a huge part of the pro-life/pro-choice debate, we have to think beyond that. Thinking logically, why don’t we compare what would happen if the woman continued with the pregnancy vs. if she had an abortion. If she continued with the pregnancy, she would spend nine months of her life with this unborn being growing inside her. If she was raped, these nine months would only serve as a lengthy and cruel reminder of her rape. She should not have to endure more psychological abuse than she has already suffered. If she was a teenager, many of her schoolmates would bully her, likely calling her a whore or other inappropriate names. Even if she had simply made a mistake, but did not want or would be able to care for a child, she would still be forced to endure these nine months. During pregnancy, she herself could die, or even the child, due to complications. If it is a normal pregnancy, she will still be forced to go through extreme pain, the likes of which no man can begin to comprehend. If she is a teenager, this pain and complications would be much worse, as most female teenage bodies would not be fully developed and ready for child-birth at this point in their lives. Is it fair to put these women through this suffering and hardship? If they were raped, it was not their fault. If they had unprotected sex, it was their fault, but it was a mistake that they woman should not have to pay for with nine months or even the rest of her life. If she had protected sex, but their method of protection did not work, it is again not their fault, as becoming pregnant was obviously not the woman’s intention. If the woman did not intend nor wanted to become pregnant, why should we take it upon ourselves to judge her actions or force her through the pregnancy? That is simply ridiculous. After birth, the child will most likely be put in foster care or become adopted. However, is living your life in foster care going to be a happy existence? No. Even if you are adopted, you will have to deal with the fact that your foster parents are not your real parents, and your real parents were forced to have you against their will. Do we, as Americans, truly want to make the amount of children living under federal care any higher than it already is? If the child is kept, the unwilling mother or parents will have to somehow scrape up some money to buy things for their baby. Some will not be able to pay for this. That is not fair to the parents or child.

    On the other hand, if the mother decides to get an abortion, she will not have to go through the difficult pain and suffering of child-birth. She will not have to decide to give the child up for abortion or to keep it. She would not have to somehow find money to keep that child alive if she were to keep it. The mother would not have to be ashamed to walk out of the house, knowing her peers might make rude comments about her. If she was raped, she will not have to deal with the constant reminder of that event. She will not have to spend nine months of her life on something she’d rather not have at all. She will be able to lead a normal life once more.

    Although many of us think only of if it is morally right to “murder” an unborn child, we must also think if it is morally right to sacrifice the mother’s own happiness and even survival in the process. She might be forced to throw her whole life away for a baby she never wanted. Is that fair? Some may say it is not fair that we would kill a dependent being. They say every human has the right to life. However, is it morally right to force another human being through so much pain, especially if it was not by choice? No. Regardless of the child’s own rights, which would be based on opinion alone, we must think of the mother’s rights as well. The unborn being in the mother’s stomach is, by the time she has an abortion, unable to function independently of the mother. Therefore, it does not have the same value in society as its mother, because it can’t survive on its own. If it were born at the same time it would’ve been aborted, it couldn’t survive. If it can live on its own, without another human being, how can we possibly give it the same rights as someone who is self-sustainable.That would be like giving two-year olds the right to vote- they would not know how to handle that situation, anymore than the unborn baby would be able to survive if born when it was to be aborted. Also, the unborn being has the POTENTIAL to grow into a fully functioning and capable human. However, it is not even close to that stage at the time of abortion. Until that time, it should not have the same rights as a born human.

  • TJ

    my thing is the abortion should only be on the table if #’s 4,3, and 2 are the cause. thoguh change 2 to where it also includes someone not wanting to force their child to live with a major birth defect. if those are the reasons then any time is the right time but if they are not then they should only be allowed to do it before what ever time the brain starts to function

  • ‘my penis’ can go die

    You can go die now. Please die now.

    • Yup

      Haven’t you been reading these comment’s? All life is sacred, regardless of how fucking annoying it is!

  • z-man

    Why not just give birth and give the baby to a orphanage?

    • belgianchic

      did you read the article?

  • Nick

    I Don’t understand when people say “sperm cells die every time a man ejaculates or “It’s just a cluster of cells, and cells die every day, so why is this different”. Firstly, yes it is true that sperm cells die every time a man jizzes but that only furthers my point. That sperm beat millions of other sperm cells and you get to take that away.

    It’s different when you kill a baby because cells dying is a natural process of life. Killing the unborn child inside a woman isn’t the most natural process.

  • meh

    Here’s a test:

    I’m holding a baby in one hand and a petri dish holding a fetus in the other.

    I’m going to drop one. You chose which.

    If you really truly believe a fetus is the same thing as a baby, it should be impossible for you to decide. You should have to flip a coin, that’s how impossible the decision should be.

    Shot in the dark, you saved the baby.

    Because you’re aware there’s a difference.

    Now admit it.

  • Been There Did It

    Tell me thedifference between aborting a “known” deformed fetus with terminal conditions vs. the terminally ill and DNR ? NOTHING…its a choice and regardless, both are/will be alive..?

  • For the truly vulnerable ones

    In all of the 10 arguments addressed, is there any consideration taken for the unborn? Women who choose to put themselves in this situation should think about all the responsibilities involved. And for the ones out there that will ask the question of, “What about the women who don’t that didn’t have a choice?” There is ALWAYS hopefull adpotive couples!!!

    • fierytreezz

      Yes, thats why there are so many older children and children of color or with handicaps up for adoption that no one wants. What consideration should be taken for a fetus exactly? Under 20 weeks they feel no pain, and are undeveloped organisms with NO self-awareness. Please, I’ll take the mothers well being any day.

  • ryan

    you talk a lot about sexual abuse, why don’t you consider shoving a clothes hanger in a woman’s womb, using it to cut a potential human being into pieces, crushing its skull and sucking it out with a vacuum cleaner something of the same or even more sinister ideals? I dare say that the abortion sounds even more disturbing than the rape. I also notice how you discredit the opposition in paragraph seven-nine with overgeneralizations, for example: all pro-life advocates have never been raped, all spend too much money campaigning, and that they claim to love children when they don’t. These are unfounded logical fallacies. Discrediting opposition with falsities is a good method when arguing among friends who all support you, but it’s a whole new game when you are trying to persuade.

    • IceWhisper Flux

      Additionally, for the pro-choice group:

      Many like to cite the “coat hanger” abortions when abortions were illegal… yet they were actually pretty rare, kinda like how abortion for rape victims is still rare. Also, when it was illegal, a licensed DOCTOR would perform the abortion for the women, but to avoid suspicion, the women were told to go to the side door, often located in the… back alley. You know, “back alley abortions”? Back alley abortions were actually referring to where a woman would enter the facility, not where her abortion actually took place, although I would not be surprised if some abortions have taken place that way.
      Also, since abortion is now legal, abortion clinics actually do not have to adhere to the same “sanitary” standards as actual hospitals. Makes sense, since the purpose of abortion clinics is to end human life, not preserve it. At least two go in a clinic, and usually only one comes out. Just what the pro-“choice” is going for.

  • ton

    what about the choice the choice to live. not everyone believes that a god will take their life. many have different designs and plans. there should be no intereference for a consentual death outing

  • Guest

    The embryo is still a human. Even if it does not look like one. It is just at a different stage of development. A 2 year old and a 20 year old do not look the same because they are at different stages of development

  • timbit_queen

    What a complete idiotic article!

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  • Devon

    The only really viable reason I can see for abortion is rape. You have that right. But your statistics are misleading. Maybe 1 in 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lifetime, but the percentage of abortion patients who have been raped is under 1 percent. I would propose some sort of compromise where it’s okay for that 1 percent, and then illegal for everyone else. So instead of abortion clinics, there would be places where victims of sexual assault would go to seek help and the abortions would be carried out there.

  • Hanna

    9 men decided Roe v Wade, therefore it should be overturned because they had no right to have an opinion on something that wouldnt apply to them. Right?

  • Noheart

    Around week 5 your baby is the size of a SESAME SEED! Who gives a fuck! I’d kill it.

    • Grapevine

      Sesame seeds are delicious you monster…

  • Robin

    Almost all of the arguments are straw-man arguments listed here.
    9. I’m pro-life, and also pro-contraceptive. Honestly, as conservative as it sounds, monogamy is the safest sex. That is scientifically proven.
    8. Pro-life does not intend to control women. If we don’t want to get pregnant, we shouldn’t have gotten drunk in the first place.
    7. It is also written in religious text not to murder people, not to steal from people, not to rape someone’s wife. I guess we shouldn’t promote that either, since those are part of religion. It must be so bad to infringe upon peoples’ rights to brutally kill people in their sleep.
    6. This is completely irrelevant to the argument. Take your straw-man arguments elsewhere. Most of us aren’t against contraceptives.
    5. This isn’t the 1700s. Stop acting like men are stuck in the 1700s. An ad-hominem argument to a bunch of old grumpy Catholics does not cover the entire population of pro-lifers. It’s not even close.
    4. No shit, Sherlock. Everyone knows that. Not everyone who believes that people shouldn’t worm their way out of financial problems by killing a baby and acting like there’s nothing wrong with it- thinks that no one should help you when you’ve been raped by your father. The deformed child needs to be put to rest and the rapist put to justice- not only for the woman’s compensation, but for the baby as well.
    3. If you used contraceptives, which are widely available- at least they should be-, then none of that would have happened.
    2. The Woman is more important than the baby. If worst comes to wirst, the baby must die, sadly enough. such is life. I think Abortion is okay when it comes to that- not when you want to try and wriggle yourself out the responsibility for having sex with that guy from work.
    1. Another straw-man. Stop thinking that we’re all extremists. You’re starting to sound like Obama.

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  • chunny

    So I should feel bad for ending a potential life to be lived out (a fetus), but I should not feel bad for preventing a potential life to be lived out (allowing all the 100’s of eggs a woman goes through in a lifetime to go unfertilized…) WTF

  • Piper

    How illogical is using “having no sex” as contraception? In my experience it works better than anything else (in fact it has a 100% success rate!). The only problem I can see for you pro-choicers is that for it actually to work you need to be a responsible adult! Grow up! You do have a choice!!! Sex=babies No sex=no babies It is as simple as that!

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  • Amazon

    Personally who gives a s— if a fetus is human or not. Others individual rights end where my body begins. I am not going to let anyone use my body for their own needs regardless if it is a neighbor, a neighbors kids or a fetus. A tadpole with less self awareness than a hamster doesnt have a “right” to parasitically live in my body any more than a random person has the right to harvest my kidney so their baby can live.
    It’s brutal but thats life.

  • BWH

    Aithough I believe you have aright to your belief, I do not believe I should have to pay for you to have an abortion. Why must our taxes be used to fund killing babies? Use birth control or pay for it yourself.

  • Emily

    I think that abortion should be the mother and fathers
    choice, there shouldn’t be room permitted for religious nuts and self-righteous
    bigots to come in and parade their opinion on something that has absolutely
    nothing to do with them. Men shouldn’t have a say, the FATHER should, just the
    same as its the mothers right to do what she wants with the cells in her body,
    because that is all they are until they are viable where the law states is the
    cut off point for abortions anyway.

  • Bella

    For abortion: i am for abortion because I feel that it is the right thing. If a woman has been raped, a victim of incest or feels as though she is unable to cater for a child at that point in her life, or even, if it’s an unplanned pregnancy, she is ABSOLUTELY allowed to have an ABORTION.
    With that being said, people who have a say in the abortion decision making is, no one. It is entirely up to her whether she feels it’s the right or wrong thing to do. Yes, you have your opinion and voice it however you may, but when it comes to the actual woman making the choice, she should not let anyone wayward her. All this concerns is only her.
    Bella.

  • Bella

    In regards to the early birth issue…
    A fetus is not, I repeat is not a human. Yes it has the potential of becoming a human and possesses the cells to become a human; but it is in fact, not human. It does not have a soul.
    It isn’t even well developed enough to embody a soul. It cannot think, it cannot feel, and it doesn’t even recognize itself yet.

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  • heidi

    The fetus as a human being issue does not cause any of the above statements to be invalid. The point is to argue for the woman’s decision to not have a child after the process has begun. Human or thing. Put the television remote down on top of your dust collecting religious manual that you trot out once a week, and open your eyes to the real problems.

    • Murder is Illegal

      um……. How does the fetus being a human being not invalidate anything? ‘Cause last time I checked, killing a human being because you didn’t want him/her to be a part of the world anymore is illegal….. and that’s why it invalidates the statements….. so yeah….. instead of making ad-hominem attacks, can you be specific about your argument?

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  • Jenna

    BUT. by law, in the fourteenth amendment, an unborn baby does not qualify for the term, “person” it needs someone else to survive. and also, by law, anyone needs permission to use someone else’s body, even a dead person’s body. so, if the fetus is a person, it would need permission from the mother

  • meris

    you people dumb as fuck

    • [CLASSIFIED]

      Ummm….. Which people? All of us? Pro-Lifers? Or Pro-Chiocers?

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  • aethiestmomof1

    I know a lot people say that the baby is just a clump of cells during early term abortions. But they aren’t. For example, at my 10 week ultrasound, my daughters body was completely formed and could move on her own accord. I was talking about it at work and a coworker got angry at me and said I didn’t know what I was talking about. Turns out she was pregnant as well and she ended up getting abortion shortly after. She was about 13 weeks along. The baby definitely perceives pain at that point. Also, I would advise any pro choicers to watch a real abortion take place. There is ultrasound imaging of an abortion taking happening at 12 weeks. I think I first came across it on youtube. It was a 2/3 video. Watch how the baby acts during the procedure. If you can still support abortion, so be it. But know there is NO forgiveness for you.

  • tachyonzero

    Damn,your missing an argument about the status of a human fetus, its definition. How about this Human fetus is a junk undevelop tumor after an enjoyable or grusome sex that can be remove anytime no moral compass added whatsoever. How about that’s a preferred prolife argument? it sounded great.

    more added definition, removing a “human” clause to the fetus. Just plain fetus will be a great argument. fetus or a seed with no definite sentient life rights can be disposed at any given time until the surrogate asserts its right as a parent.

  • Dylan

    I think you are all failing to miss a key point in ProChoice. Christianity is not a great foundation for ANY kind of government. It honestly isn’t fair to everyone else who ISN’T a christian (ex. Athiests, Diests etc.) So, I think ProLife is a lost cause…

    • A Christian

      God Bless you :)

  • Ashton

    I love how the last argument for abortion is against the government regulating and having authority hover the medical field considering how many pro-choicers support Obamacare. Seems a little contradictory.

  • Jason

    “Most people who are against abortion will never even become pregnant.” Argument being, only men are pro-life, I assume. First off, that is blatantly wrong. More women attend pro-life rallies and join pro-life groups by far. Furthermore if given the choice to abort their own conception before being born, I would bet everything that each child would chose life. Considering on average the chance of the gender being one or the other is 50%, labeling the pro-life movement as being ‘most(ly)’ men is moronic.

  • Rebecca

    No matter what you tell yourself to sleep at night, a fetus at any stage is a unique and special human child. Anyone who can kill another human life for selfish reasons is a murderer. Lets not sugar coat homocide. Most women are only thinking about themselves when they murder their offspring.
    I would also like to add that while I am against killing a human being, there is nothing wrong with using protection. There are so many birth control methods on the market, there is no reason women should be getting pregnant unless they want to. Just saying.

    • Lyra Belaqua

      “Anyone who can kill another human life for selfish reasons is a murderer.”

      That’s why if I had an abortion, I’d do it out of love. So glad to know I wouldn’t be a murderer.

      “There are so many birth control methods on the market, there is no reason women should be getting pregnant unless they want to.”

      Because we all know everything happens by sheer desire. We all know da wimmins lie when they say they were using protection but got pregnant anyways.

      A healthy dose of snark can be found in this post.

  • Blue’s mom

    I am guessing that you don’t use ANY birth control because every form of contraception except condoms and abstinence, use hormones to terminate the growth of a fertilized egg. If you use birth control bills you have killed many fertilized eggs that could have become babies at some point.

    • Lyra Belaqua

      I’ve found that going into a deep trance stops the growth of a fertilized egg. /s

  • talkingaboutstuff

    so many logical fallacies…yikes

    • talkingaboutstuff

      Odds are that 1 in 3 women will be victims of sexual violence in her lifetime. Does this mean that 33% of all women should be forced to carry out a pregnancy from this violation?……….no?

  • Don Riches

    number five is not even close to being true!!!!!!!

  • Britt9687

    Seriously? Avoiding the whole government thing that really in my opinion doesn’t matter…. Yes if there is detrimental problems that can cause a mother to die I’m sure that it’s understandable, but to assume “as a fact” that most pro life ate women that can’t have kids or are religious idiots is Chorley idiotic. And really the government only agreeing with out yo hold women back? Please. A strong woman in society will push forward for her child to give it a better life not simply say oops I’m pregnant guess life is over for me. And really religion? There’s a moral code in all of us religion aside. How else can you explain the depression transmission and shame that a girl feels after an abortion? And then saying people that are prolife should spend there money else where? Shouldn’t you do the same then? Like the better sex education you were personally discussing? Abortion was originally there to HELP women that you personally described that legitimately needed it.who’s bodies couldn’t handle out physically and were too mentally distraught to handle such a burden. Not to theses 1.3 million adults and teenagers who obviously don’t believe in birth control themselves and think its ok to act like an adult and have sex!

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  • Lady Life

    I would like to see an update of these arguments because 1, they are extremely out of date and 2, illogical.

  • meep

    98% of abortions are convenience abortions, this can be prevented by making convenience abortion illegal. We can then have pro life clinics for help and other options like adoption.

  • Guy Fawkes

    10. Laws against _________ do not stop ________; they simply make it less safe.

    a) Murder
    b) Stealing
    c) Adultery
    d) Tax evasion
    e) Treason
    f) Espionage
    Number 10 is a stupid argument against abortion.

  • Guy Fawkes

    Your reasoning in 7 is patently false, but that’s not your fault. The public school system in America no longer teaches the actual history of the United States. Had you been taught the truth about the founding of the U.S. you would know that Christian religious ideology was the express foundation for all laws of this nation.

  • Guy Fawkes

    6. Reproductive restrictions do not end with abortion.

    The obverse of that coin is also true:
    Abortion restriction do not end within the womb.

    PLANNED PARENTHOOD LOBBIES FOR ‘POST-BIRTH ABORTION’
    http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/planned-parenthood-lobbies-for-post-birth-abortion/

    Planned Parenthood official defends post-birth abortions
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/planned-parenthood-official-defends-post-birth-abortions

  • Guy Fawkes

    For #5 please provide sources for your statistics, otherwise the word “most” is meaningless within the context of your statement. Without verifiable statistics you are simply stating your opinion.

  • Toni

    The reason proposed in number ten is simply a logical fallacy. One could say if you legalized pedophilia behavior then their underground abuse ( eg. Kidnapping) would not be necessary thus making it safer. Overall abortion is simply the slaughter of the innocence; why should one punish another human for another humans mistake. Furthermore to suggest that being pro life is based off religious ideology is very incorrect. As recognized in the Declaration of Independence the right to life is an inherent which without makes no other rights possible; this has nothing to do with religion. Abortion simply put is the murder if the guiltless.

  • Jayla

    I came here looking for some decent arguments supporting pro-choice. Instead I read a list of tripe full of misrepresentations, erroneous assumptions, and a complete lack of attempt to tackle the real heart of the issue. The only argument that came close to giving a decent point was the save a woman’s life argument, but even that was riddled with vague assertions and unsubstantiated “facts”. Very poor piece of writing.

  • none

    In my opinion It doesn’t matter if the fetus is a human or not. It’s the mother’s choice of what she wants to do with it. If abortion is her choice then so be it. If you don’t like abortion then don’t have one, but you can’t take away someones rights to have one if they want it. You may see it as murder, but not everyone sees it like in that way and you can’t change their mind just because it’s not what you want to hear.

    • Anon

      Once the mother becomes pregnant, the baby’s right to life overrides whatever selfish reason the mother wants to kill the baby for. Why? Because the mother obviously either is or believes she is (in the case of teenagers) mature enough to have sex, and must live with the consequences of her actions. Didn’t want a baby? Too bad, she should’ve thought about that before having sex. Everything in life has consequences, so stop whining and DEAL WITH THEM. And just because someone doesn’t SEE it as murder doesn’t mean that it ISN’T murder. One is entitled to their own opinion, yes, but not their own facts.

  • This Guy

    I find it odd that the same people who would claim to have found life on a different planet because of less advanced “mass of cells” than what sperm and an egg produce after a few days is life then turn around and claim what the human reproductive organs produce is not life. (in regards to the first couple weeks of conception)

  • Clefspeare

    One thing. It’s not like teenagers have fetuses pop in their wombs, and they should accept the possible consequences before having sex.

  • Jocanda

    Bottom line: If men could get pregnant, abortion would become a sacrament.

    • PRO – LIFE

      It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being a man or a woman!!!! It has EVERYTHING to do with NOT BECOMING A MURDERER OF INFANTS!

    • male human being

      Sadly, abortion teaches others in my gender that its okay to have sex with anything that walks into the bar wearing a skirt. Why? Because it allows them to have sex whenever they want, without having to worry about accidentally having a few kids they don’t want responsibility for. It truly is a disgusting cycle.

      • Jocanda

        I don’t think it’s the abortion as much as it is the political culture we’re in. Also the permissive socio-sexual education kids have had via movies,

  • Lauren

    Is this a joke?
    You rarely used any factual information in your argument. You can’t say people should be pro-choice because you think politicians are all about propaganda. Also, only 5% of women who are raped actually get pregnant. Only 1% of abortions are due to rape. 93% are for convienvence. How can you stand to see that 92,752 times as many babies are aborted as there are Americans killed by terrorists in one year? You say that most people who are pro-life won’t actually ever have a baby??? So are you telling me that it’s ok for men to be pro-choice? Lastly, I’d like you to be aware of the fact that 28% of women who get an abortion attempt suicide. And all women who abort are 3.9x more likely to become a drug addict.

    “I’ve noticed that all people who are pro-choice, are already born.” -Ronald Reagan.

  • Anthony Salvatore Campagnola

    It has nothing to do with religion. My religion says murder and stealing are wrong, and they are against the law. Not because religion says so, but because common sense addresses that issue. Plus, rape only counts for 3% of abortions, and quoting C. Everest Coop, “I have never heard of a single abortion ever being done to save a woman’s life”, statistically, 0.07% of abortions. most of them are people who aren’t responsible for their actions, and won’t deal with the consequences. I also love how you said “Abortions will still happen with a ban, laws won’t change a thing”, now if only you realized that that applies to gun rights as well, we’d be set.

  • Ashleigh C

    I believe the fetus is a human being at conception. if it were not, why is there a heartbeat on ultrasounds?

  • DANIEL

    it’s highly disgusting to hear these comments. would the writer have had this opportunity to pen these for perusal if she was aborted as a fetus? hmmmmmm. she may be entitled to her opinion for a kind of people in her world of ABORTION.

  • Guest

    #7 is totally incorrect and shows that the person that wrote this has no education in the scriptures and theology and should probably stay away from something that they are ill-equipped to address intelligently.

    • BobandCathy Villa

      Actually you probably do not want to talk religion, scripture and theology in terms of abortion, you would be surprised. As I do have an education in theology and scriptures. Theology has been at BEST inconsistent on abortion. Most traditional religious beliefs, including Christianity is that the soul is what is life, makes a human alive. But traditional belief followed throughout religions, including Christianity was based on Aristotle’s theory of preformation, that the physical form had to be developed BEFORE the soul could enter the body. Ensoulment happened at the quickening which was around 4 months, even the early church fathers like Tertullian, Augustine, and Jerome expounded this. Even later theologians such as Aquinas and the Bishops of the Council of Vienne supported delayed ensoulment and Pope Gregory issued a Papal decree on the subject. Jewish scriptures did not classify the loss of the fetus as murder in anyway at any stage and some rabbinical teaching obligated a woman to have an abortion if another child endangered the the family. The Greek Septuiagint clearly makes distinctions between the unformed and formed stages of development. The formed fetus was treated as murder but the unformed not as it was not seen as human life. Modern scriptures such as the New Testament (lets face it in terms of scriptural history it is modern) are completely moot on the subject of abortion even though it was in practice at that time.

  • I Choose LIfe

    I would just like to point out to you that the easiest method of contraception is something called “not having sex.” If you don’t want a baby, don’t have sex. And if you do, there’s adoption, don’t be selfish and kill your baby just because you don’t want it.

    • I Choose Life

      And also there shouldn’t be 70,000 15-19 year old girls getting pregnant!!!!!!

  • Emma

    I have one question, what is the unborn? What do you think is it a human or a clump of cells? That is the only question you have to prove the answer to if you want to solve this abortion thing. Have you ever heard if the Law of Biogenisis? Yes? No? Well I will explain it, this law states that everything produces offspring of their own kinda, and dog and a dog have a puppy, so a human and a human produce what? A human. So what is that fetus? According to the law of Biogenisis that fetus can only be human. My second question is what makes an unborn child different from a toddler or even an adult (in some cases)? Anyone have an answer? I do! There is no difference! Here is an acrinim for you: S.L.E.D! This stands for size, level of dependency, environment and development. Let’s talk about size. Is a short person less human than a tall person? Is a fetus less human than a toddler? I don’t think so. Next, is level of dependency. Unborn children would die without the mother, and a diabetic on insulin would die without insulin. Does that make the unborn child and the diabetic less human than other people? I don’t think so! Next is environment! Let’s say I am in California I get on a plane ad fly to new York. Does me changing my environment make me a different or less of a person? Same with a child in the womb, once it is out of the mother is it different or more human than it was before? Okay last one is developement. You developed that fastest you ever have in your mothers womb, and since then you devolpment has increasingly slowed down does that make you more human? If anything it should make you less human. I will leave you with one question, we’re you ever not a human?

    • BobandCathy Villa

      Now try making an argument without every fallacy under the sun to come to your conclusions, or even set up the situation. First you misrepresent (and misspell) the law of biogenesis. The law of biogenesis states living thing can only come from living things. Example a spider lays eggs which will DEVELOP into a spider. It never states that at the most rudimentary level it is already that thing, but rather it has the POTENTIAL to become that thing. It does not say ” that fetus can only be human.” It says only a human can produce a human which is completely different then your conclusion. That is why it is called a Human Fetus, no one says it is anything else but a human fetus, however there is a difference between a human fetus and a human being. 2. What is the difference between a toddler and a fetus- consciousnesses, being sentient, breathing basically everything that defines life is the difference between a toddler and a fetus. Your comparisons based on your fallacious conclusion to the question are irrelevant comparisons to the actual answer of what makes the difference between a toddler and a fetus. I am sure you think you should smart and that is the saddest part of all to your post.

  • Teucer

    I would like to ask the wrier something. Since you are writing all this i assume you were discussed to have had a baby. all of those things above mentioned sounded so much better that your new baby?

  • Michelle

    Reading all these comments, I find it really funny that how CONVENIENTLY and AMAZINGLY pro-life supporters do not or forgot about in vitro fertilisation. If according to your beliefs that human lives begin at the stage of conception where an ovum is joint in the name of fertilisation with a sperm; thus calling abortion murder, then what is IVF? Massacre, on a daily basis? Seriously, people? FERTILISED ovums are being disposed routinely when it fails to be implanted in the uterus. Please don’t tell me that it doesn’t count because it did not happen in the woman’s body so it’s just a cell harvested in a petri dish, because that is the funniest joke in the century.It just shows how shallow you are and how bias you are with the whole issue.

    Also, why do anyone have to be so agitated. Pro-choice is being pro-CHOICE and not pro-abortion for a reason. Pro-choice believes that every WOMAN on planet earth has the right to control what happens to their own body. They are merely fighting for the rights of women to make decision for their own welfare, that doesn’t mean they, by all means, support abortion.

    It has always been pro-life supporters that are framing pro-choice supporters for being evil and cruel.

  • jennifer

    I am a pro-life supporter. I found this blog while researching for my anti-abortion essay. I find it perculiar that before you wrote number 4 that you didn’t research how many abortions occurr due to rape or incest (for the sake of your time, it’s 1%). Plus, as St Kitts said, you didn’t even mention whether a fetus is a human being or not. According to Linda Hinkle, a Livestrong contributor, a baby has a heartbeat as early as week four or five. She backed her information up from a college’s study. It makes me wonder if you are a credible source or not…

  • Eleanor

    The fact of the matter is, that why do you (pro-life) people get to decide about what is right for another person’s life, it is her choice and she should have that option, free will. Does it make right ? I don’t know but it is not my right to judge others nor is it yours, it has no impact on you or me whatsoever.

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  • Anthony Hahn

    Regarding number 1. I agree i wouldn’t let the government give me medical advice, but neither would i let a doctor do anything to me that isn’t necessary especially killing my own child.

  • Allison

    From a sonographer’s perspective: Not Just A Ball Of Cells http://allisonfshepard.wordpress.com/2014/09/26/not-just-a-ball-of-cells-2/

  • Emma

    It’s always interesting to see the anti-choice people on some sort of self proclaimed moral high ground are the ones with the most viscous, ignorant and insulting comments. They are not called ‘babies’ whilst inside the womb because technically they are not, it is an embryo and then a fetus. Before 8 weeks it is a set of cells with special potential-but a set of cells all the same. How dare people-especially men- direct such hurtful opinions at woman when they have never been faced with the wonder and complexity of a woman’ body. It’s heartbreaking that the voice that is the most important and perhaps the most important is the voice of a woman who has been through an abortion because of fear of being ostracized. It can’t be easy

  • Hands off of my body

    The thing is it’s not your or anyone else right to tell what a woman can or cannot do to HER BODY. Your giving a a dead person more rights than a living breathing woman here people. See we have something called bodily autonomy.

    Forcing a woman to carry a child she doesn’t want or care about is probably the cruelest thing you could do. Which is why we need contraceptive and abortion. Period.

    If your not female you don’t get a say in this. Honestly. Your wife, girlfriend and or f**k buddy have a choice. You cannot and will not force them to do something that they do not want and or medically are able to do.

    Also if abortion is wrong what about animals the end their pregnancies early? Why not fight for their babies too ey? Does this make miscarriages murder? All because the BODY chose to end a pregnancy?

    And in alot of ways it can be the mans fault for abortion. How about you wrap it and not whine about it not feeling the same? Would you rather have a condom on or a crying 6 month old to feed and change when your not prepared for it?

    Women who have been raped should immediately be given the rape pill. IMMEDIATELY. Would you honestly want a child you only know as the product of you being raped? Don’t say adoption because well if you read the article you know. I’ve known too many kids in foster care who went through really hard crap growing up thanks to it and you know what all of them are pro-choice for that reason.

    Take your religion out of the government and keep your hands off of my body.

  • Brooke

    This is pathetic! Abortion should be I-LLEGAL and should never happen! You are killing and innocent unborn child! I am a Christian and we do not promote rape, or killings or any of those things mentioned in #7. This country should be run by religion or as you see know the country is being run right into the ground and Hell. When God is removed….Satan comes in…. the problem America has these days.

  • meg

    If aborting a “clump of cells” is murder, wouldn’t a menstrual cycle be murder too?If so, are you saying women should just stop having periods as well, since every month an egg, a “potential” human being, is flushed from the body every month. Just a thought. when you say you’re murdering a future human being by aborting a small group of cells, you might as well count the egg, and even the sperm for that matter, since both carry the genes and make up for a future human. I guess we all should menstruating and having sex for that matter then…

  • Csschris

    Does anyone know who wrote this?

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